Warnock........is he worth it?

[Weasel 966]

8 minutes ago, MMC said:

Listen here you're the one that purchased a "Payero 10" shirt, you're the one that cursed him like you did De Pena and Roberts and Ledesma and any other slightly exciting attacking talent we've ever purchased. This is squarely on you, not Warnock and I hope you've learnt your lesson and will be buying a Howson or Peltier shirt for next season.

Guilty as charged, I have in fact put the curse on Payero 🙃

[Blanco 4,916]

26 minutes ago, DevKWat said:

What a contrast to the gazette article backing Warnock to the hilt, a great read on the actual problems.

Some of the still shots really are damning, especially the one at Reading away where we have 0 midfielder’s against Reading’s 4 in a wide shot.. 

This is a good article. @Brunners I noticed that you brought it to the attention of Craig Johns. Did he reply to you?

[Brunners 7,982]

15 minutes ago, Blanco said:

This is a good article. @Brunners I noticed that you brought it to the attention of Craig Johns. Did he reply to you?

yep, said he still thinks NW can turn it around and there's no point discussing it anymore.

Living in fantasy land.

[Blanco 4,916]

2 minutes ago, Brunners said:

yep, said he still thinks NW can turn it around and there's no point discussing it anymore.

Living in fantasy land.

No point in discussing it anymore 🤣🤣🤣

Thats usually the comments of someone who has lost the discussion 😂😂😂

[wilsoncgp 9,281]

7 minutes ago, Blanco said:

This is a good article. @Brunners I noticed that you brought it to the attention of Craig Johns. Did he reply to you?

He did and he's steadfast in his belief Warnock can turn it around, nothing changes from what's put in front of him. The evidence basically boils down to hard work and bad luck. The first article yesterday had a bunch of things about what Warnock has to fix but so much of it has existed from before this season began; Johns however is treating this like it's all a this season problem. He's decided last season's form has nothing to do with this season despite the same problems occurring with half a different set of players.

It's honestly like listening to Warnock's post match press pieces from almost any game he's been in charge of us where the result has gone the wrong way. It's taken from the horse's mouth, undissected and undisputed and put onto the pages.

I like that Johns engages more with the fans in the debate on social media and is willing to respond to challenges on his opinion. But on this, well, I can't tell whether he actually sees how much his opinions drive even his constructive articles. I got called presumptuous for saying I wasn't shocked that he backs Warnock when he actually said it properly on Twitter but quite like the man he's backing, I think he maybe needs to take more responsibility for that and accept his pieces right now are written with those opinions in mind. I'm not the only one who read his articles yesterday and thought its clear as day where his beliefs lie and if that's no more than presumption then I guess we're all bloody mind readers.

Boiling our position in any way down to luck is not constructive and isn't based on reality. We're not daft, we can see why we are in the position we're in and when a manager starts bemoaning their luck without being in any significant way self-reflective, that should be challenged. Instead, it is lapped up and served back to us in a different format. Johns is entitled to his opinions and like I say, I'm glad he responds to challenges on them. But this is indeed a two-way street and my two cents is I think he's being daft to think there's so much evidence available that Warnock can turn this around.

[YorkshireSmoggie 12]

8 minutes ago, Brunners said:

yep, said he still thinks NW can turn it around and there's no point discussing it anymore.

Living in fantasy land.

Isn't it his actual job to discuss it more?

You know, the one he gets paid to do.

[Leesider 1,076]

46 minutes ago, Weasel said:

I'd prefer Warnock to leave and us get a new manager, but if he does end up staying I'll still watch the games and he'll receive my backing. Personally I can't see us improving under Warnock or him putting a run together, but I'll still support him if that's the only option.

That's assuming he behaves himself and doesn't throw players under the bus and make excuses, and actually gives Payero some minutes.

I think the anti Warnock feeling is very understandable given the results and type of football played under him,

However i also think its gone a bit too far. Im expecting to hear rumours of Warnock & staff kicking a cute puppy around the pitch, refusing to help a little old lady cross the road & pulling the wings off defenceless insects, Im also pretty certain he is not torturing Payero in a dungeon under the stand, He also wants results as we all do & a little perspective is needed. Just my opinion

[wilsoncgp 9,281]

2 minutes ago, YorkshireSmoggie said:

Isn't it his actual job to discuss it more?

You know, the one he gets paid to do.

Not really, it's his job to write articles for the Gazette, which he does. I just don't think he is achieving the balance of debate as well as he maybe thinks he is. It feels to me like it has done for a while with the Gazette; the club is better represented than the fans. The 2nd article yesterday about putting to bed certain 'untruths' as he may well choose to call them is based on some information the fans don't trust with a barge pole but he's quite full in on considering these 'myths' debunked.

[Brunners 7,982]

12 minutes ago, Blanco said:

No point in discussing it anymore 🤣🤣🤣

Thats usually the comments of someone who has lost the discussion 😂😂😂

Now he's on the "Yeah well that's my opinion" which I tend to find people say when they know they don't really have a leg to stand on.

[Dynamo Kev 1,557]

1 minute ago, Leesider said:

I think the anti Warnock feeling is very understandable given the results and type of football played under him,

However i also think its gone a bit too far. Im expecting to hear rumours of Warnock & staff kicking a cute puppy around the pitch, refusing to help a little old lady cross the road & pulling the wings off defenceless insects, Im also pretty certain he is not torturing Payero in a dungeon under the stand, He also wants results as we all do & a little perspective is needed. Just my opinion

he's incapable of setting a team up to play any other way than midfield bypassing hoofball. he's a slightly more adventurous pulis. look at our players, crooks howson paddy tav payero bola sporar onel jones. they are all good with the ball at their FEET. it is almost as bad as pulling wings off defensless incets than to have these players set up to launch balls into channels. 

[YorkshireSmoggie 12]

2 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Not really, it's his job to write articles for the Gazette, which he does. I just don't think he is achieving the balance of debate as well as he maybe thinks he is. It feels to me like it has done for a while with the Gazette; the club is better represented than the fans. The 2nd article yesterday about putting to bed certain 'untruths' as he may well choose to call them is based on some information the fans don't trust with a barge pole but he's quite full in on considering these 'myths' debunked.

I'm no expert in journalism but i think theres a difference in being a Middlesbrough 'reporter' as his job title states, to writing opinion pieces every week. Reporting for me describes the act of representing whats going on in the world not whats going on in your head.

[wilsoncgp 9,281]

1 minute ago, YorkshireSmoggie said:

I'm no expert in journalism but i think theres a difference in being a Middlesbrough 'reporter' as his job title states, to writing opinion pieces every week. Reporting for me describes the act of representing whats going on in the world not whats going on in your head.

I get what you're saying mate but I think sports journalism at least does have a balance of reality and opinion and I quite like that. It doesn't mean we always achieve balance of perspectives as I don't think we ever really do with the Gazette nowadays but there is a place there for Johns to represent the facts and to represent his views based on those facts.

[Downsouth 6,326]

22 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

He did and he's steadfast in his belief Warnock can turn it around, nothing changes from what's put in front of him. The evidence basically boils down to hard work and bad luck. The first article yesterday had a bunch of things about what Warnock has to fix but so much of it has existed from before this season began; Johns however is treating this like it's all a this season problem. He's decided last season's form has nothing to do with this season despite the same problems occurring with half a different set of players.

It's honestly like listening to Warnock's post match press pieces from almost any game he's been in charge of us where the result has gone the wrong way. It's taken from the horse's mouth, undissected and undisputed and put onto the pages.

I like that Johns engages more with the fans in the debate on social media and is willing to respond to challenges on his opinion. But on this, well, I can't tell whether he actually sees how much his opinions drive even his constructive articles. I got called presumptuous for saying I wasn't shocked that he backs Warnock when he actually said it properly on Twitter but quite like the man he's backing, I think he maybe needs to take more responsibility for that and accept his pieces right now are written with those opinions in mind. I'm not the only one who read his articles yesterday and thought its clear as day where his beliefs lie and if that's no more than presumption then I guess we're all bloody mind readers.

Boiling our position in any way down to luck is not constructive and isn't based on reality. We're not daft, we can see why we are in the position we're in and when a manager starts bemoaning their luck without being in any significant way self-reflective, that should be challenged. Instead, it is lapped up and served back to us in a different format. Johns is entitled to his opinions and like I say, I'm glad he responds to challenges on them. But this is indeed a two-way street and my two cents is I think he's being daft to think there's so much evidence available that Warnock can turn this around.

Seems to me he will only engage with others who share his take on things, would imagine that with a bit more probing he will soon bar @Brunners from his account..........................hmmmmm might not be a bad thing😄

[YorkshireSmoggie 12]

4 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I get what you're saying mate but I think sports journalism at least does have a balance of reality and opinion and I quite like that. It doesn't mean we always achieve balance of perspectives as I don't think we ever really do with the Gazette nowadays but there is a place there for Johns to represent the facts and to represent his views based on those facts.

I agree there should be opinions present in it, I think it was just the pointed and accusatory nature of how it was written. Somehow suggesting that the average paying fan on the terraces cant see shots attempted or xG so we need to be enlightened. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though in that he is just trying to offer perspectives...

[Leesider 1,076]

14 minutes ago, Dynamo Kev said:

he's incapable of setting a team up to play any other way than midfield bypassing hoofball. he's a slightly more adventurous pulis. look at our players, crooks howson paddy tav payero bola sporar onel jones. they are all good with the ball at their FEET. it is almost as bad as pulling wings off defensless incets than to have these players set up to launch balls into channels. 

Thats why i said the anti Warnock feeling was understandable.