Boro v Sheffield United 2-0 (Watmore, McNair)

[Johnmfc81 902]

1 minute ago, Johnmfc81 said:

I always want us to win irregardless of who the manager is, i just can't stand the way the present manager is going about it. 

Also if I didn't support the team/club I wouldn't pay money week in week out to watch it, but I do.

[Rioch's Braves 711]

12 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Is it really an awful predicament?

If he starts winning again then we're back in the mix.

Most of the people who have turned on Warnock have done so because of the results and the performances, not because he's a daft Brexiteer or because he has thrown a player under the bus that not a single Boro fan will have heard of before we were linked with him.

I was one of those throwing in the towel on Saturday, and yesterday doesn't erase that, but every win under Warnock chips away at the reason to get rid of him for most fans.

We played well last night no doubt about that, but for the most part we're awful to watch, Warnock's style of football is terrible. I think we have a decent squad that's poorly managed, under the right coach/manager I think we'd be right up there. We'll nick wins here and there but my own opinion is Warnock will be here till near the end of the season at the very least, so its a case of just sucking it up.

[p_mards 1,365]

 

My position with Warnock is that I would like him to stay here until the end of the season provided that we can have a steady season well away from the relegation zone whilst Scott implements his changes for next season behind the scenes and in terms of recruitment. There's loads for Scott to do behind the scenes, and come next summer I think we'll have far better foundations in place - so I'm quite happy for this season to be a stable season of transition. If Warnock struggles to get results then I don't see what he has to offer us. Given his attitude towards Siliki and Payero, he sure as hell isn't smoothing the transition for them to bed in and settle for the new regime next season, so if he has us looking like we're in a serious relegation battle then he may as well leave and us bring forward our planned new regime under Scott and a new head coach. Us imploding under Warnock benefits absolutely nobody who cares for Middlesbrough FC, especially when we already know we're in a state of transition on and off the pitch under Scott.

Last night was the best performance of the season and a vital win. In the first half we were obviously helped with Watmore's early screamer, but we played some good football in spells in the first half. Crucially the midfield three operated well. There were quite a few moments in which McNair's reading of the game in the middle third of the pitch was a bit off, but overall he done well. He was really good when we were pushed back into our defensive shape in our defensive third as he was always in a good position, intercepted well and was tidy on the ball. Howson was excellent in midfield too. Sporar exudes quality, even when he doesn't score. He's so alert, nimble and technically excellent in tight areas. His strength, control and clever flick in the build up to McNair's goal was made to look simple but we've had countless strikers - even ones costing £15 million - who really struggled with them situations.

In the second half we showed a different side to our game: the ability to manage a lead and see out 45 minutes without blowing it. It wasn't anywhere near as polished as our game management under Karanka; with players always needing to be regularly reminded by each other not to play at normal pace - instead of it being being a sort of telepathy.

Whilst it was a good game by us, we're going to need to play somewhere near to that level consistently if Warnock is going to turn things around. The wingback formation with two mobile striker seemed to really catch Sheffield United by surprise. Our width and mobility was vital to opening up gaps between their backline. Watching Bamba perform like that was reminiscent of the sorts of commanding performances Ehiogu would put in. All in all it's an excellent win and it calms a lot of nerves as we aren't looking over our shoulders with such concern going into Saturday. The only major downside is Warnock's pre-match comments about Siliki and Payero.

Edited September 30, 2021 by p_mards

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

1 hour ago, TeaCider24 said:

Is it really an awful predicament?

If he starts winning again then we're back in the mix.

Most of the people who have turned on Warnock have done so because of the results and the performances, not because he's a daft Brexiteer or because he has thrown a player under the bus that not a single Boro fan will have heard of before we were linked with him.

I was one of those throwing in the towel on Saturday, and yesterday doesn't erase that, but every win under Warnock chips away at the reason to get rid of him for most fans.

What's this got to do with anything? So what if we didn't know about him? I didn't know much about Britt Assombalonga or Martin Braithwaite after we signed them but I'd sure as hell be *** off if Monk had thrown them under the bus after his poor run of results.

They're relatively big money Investments intended to improve our first team and it's clear Payero has been scapegoated for his first start, a game he had very little effect on. I don't know about the Boro fans you talk to but I don't know many who aren't *** off about the way Warnock is handling this situation. One result isn't going to change that one jot.

[ChipBarrington 315]

One thing I loved to see as well was Bamba controlling the line and organising everyone at a defensive free kick in the 2nd half. Absolutely bawling at everyone - you love to see it

[KeithLambsFaxMachine 727]

8 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

They're relatively big money Investments intended to improve our first team and it's clear Payero has been scapegoated for his first start, a game he had very little effect on.

According to Whoscored, Martin Payero had only 18 touches all game. You don’t think the fact he had so little effect on the game as a central midfielder is indicative of a problem? I don’t agree with throwing him under the bus, though. 

I really hope he does come good and we get what we thought we were buying, but he does seem to be a way off that at the moment. 

[TeaCider24 12,643]

9 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

What's this got to do with anything? So what if we didn't know about him? I didn't know much about Britt Assombalonga or Martin Braithwaite after we signed them but I'd sure as hell be *** off if Monk had thrown them under the bus after his poor run of results.

They're relatively big money Investments intended to improve our first team and it's clear Payero has been scapegoated for his first start, a game he had very little effect on. I don't know about the Boro fans you talk to but I don't know many who aren't *** off about the way Warnock is handling this situation. One result isn't going to change that one jot.

As I said in my post, the win doesn't erase the doubts about Warnock.

Defeats and lack of form magnify issues.

I think we'd all still agree that Payero played poorly against Reading and arguably didn't deserve to start the next match.

I think Warnock was wrong to blame the goal on him and I'm not liking how he's publicly knocking him, but he wasn't wrong to question his performance.

He looked good coming off the bench against Blackpool, he was non-existent against Reading.

If we'd won those games, most people wouldn't be bothered about the Payero subplot as we'd be right up there and getting results.

We didn't win them, the performances were poor, so people are less likely to excuse issues with the manager and selections.

 

[MMC 1,000]

10 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

What's this got to do with anything? So what if we didn't know about him? I didn't know much about Britt Assombalonga or Martin Braithwaite after we signed them but I'd sure as hell be *** off if Monk had thrown them under the bus after his poor run of results.

They're relatively big money Investments intended to improve our first team and it's clear Payero has been scapegoated for his first start, a game he had very little effect on. I don't know about the Boro fans you talk to but I don't know many who aren't *** off about the way Warnock is handling this situation. One result isn't going to change that one jot.

What's more is that just about everyone foresaw this coming from the moment Warnock started rambling about "Steve Gibson and these South Americans". Payero getting dropped, left out, brought on only for cameo appearances and then being blamed for the outcome whenever he does play isn't a surprise, just something to roll your eyes to. 

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

I don't honestly understand how a midfielder like Payero is meant to perform when he doesn't get the ball.

To both @KeithLambsFaxMachine and @TeaCider24, I didn't have Payero down as performing poorly at all against Reading, nor Crooks for that matter. They didn't play well but they didn't play poorly either. Both players never actually got the ball, it was lumped over and over again and it says a lot that even Crooks didn't manage that many touches in a game like that. It was probably only the fact he could head the ball that he ended up with as many as he did and that wasn't many. Compare that to the game against Sheffield United and all 3 of our midfielders ended up with double or more touches than those individuals did at Reading.

I'm not gonna have a go at creative midfielders in a game where we don't actually use them. We never played through midfield at all, I think we can see already just from what Payero has done in this side that he's not going to do much without the ball at his feet but he looks bright when he's able to get involved in the game. Crooks can at least have an aerial presence in the game when we're playing hoof-ball but again, coming back to Tuesday night, he's actually not half bad with the ball at his feet either and arguably we play better as a team when we make use of both of those things.

For me, I looked at that Reading game and saw that he never actually wanted Payero in that team, at least not what Payero likely brings to the team. If he wants to complain about being forced into playing him in a game he doesn't think he's going to have an effect in then fair enough. But that wasn't enough, nah, he wanted to scapegoat him for the bloody result as well. The bloody goal he's blamed him for, Dael Fry is sat in bloody midfield chasing his man, Howson seems like he's supposed to be watching Halilovic but he's stood ball-watching and he wants to blame Payero for not following his bloody man. I'm not surprised Payero looks done with this situation. I would be as well. Experienced players who Warnock gets on with get away with bloody murder whilst a young lad who's travelled half the world to come play for us gets treat like dirt. Warnock is a *** cretin.

Edited September 30, 2021 by wilsoncgp

[Brunners 7,982]

2 hours ago, KeithLambsFaxMachine said:

According to Whoscored, Martin Payero had only 18 touches all game. You don’t think the fact he had so little effect on the game as a central midfielder is indicative of a problem? I don’t agree with throwing him under the bus, though. 

I really hope he does come good and we get what we thought we were buying, but he does seem to be a way off that at the moment. 

I didn't watch the Reading game, but we bypass our midfield so often that this isn't terribly surprising, I'd be surprised if our other midfielders weren't equally as low.

[Mfcdanny 771]

1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

I don't honestly understand how a midfielder like Payero is meant to perform when he doesn't get the ball.

To both @KeithLambsFaxMachine and @TeaCider24, I didn't have Payero down as performing poorly at all against Reading, nor Crooks for that matter. They didn't play well but they didn't play poorly either. Both players never actually got the ball, it was lumped over and over again and it says a lot that even Crooks didn't manage that many touches in a game like that. It was probably only the fact he could head the ball that he ended up with as many as he did and that wasn't many. Compare that to the game against Sheffield United and all 3 of our midfielders ended up with double or more touches than those individuals did at Reading.

I'm not gonna have a go at creative midfielders in a game where we don't actually use them. We never played through midfield at all, I think we can see already just from what Payero has done in this side that he's not going to do much without the ball at his feet but he looks bright when he's able to get involved in the game. Crooks can at least have an aerial presence in the game when we're playing hoof-ball but again, coming back to Tuesday night, he's actually not half bad with the ball at his feet either and arguably we play better as a team when we make use of both of those things.

For me, I looked at that Reading game and saw that he never actually wanted Payero in that team, at least not what Payero likely brings to the team. If he wants to complain about being forced into playing him in a game he doesn't think he's going to have an effect in then fair enough. But that wasn't enough, nah, he wanted to scapegoat him for the bloody result as well. The bloody goal he's blamed him for, Dael Fry is sat in bloody midfield chasing his man, Howson seems like he's supposed to be watching Halilovic but he's stood ball-watching and he wants to blame Payero for not following his bloody man. I'm not surprised Payero looks done with this situation. I would be as well. Experienced players who Warnock gets on with get away with bloody murder whilst a young lad who's travelled half the world to come play for us gets treat like dirt. Warnock is a *** cretin.

It’s ridiculous too be fair. He’s clearly blaming payero for that defeat. Not one player played well but he blames a 23 year old South American who is trying to settle in an area. 
 

also seemed like he is blaming payero and Siliki for our poor start when payero has started one game and Siliki 2 which we won one of them. I was all for warnock but I am getting sick of him now. 
 

also I don’t see why people are saying you can clearly see payero is off the pace? Why is that? Are people just saying it to back warnock up? Against reading he hardly had the ball but can’t really remember him giving it away when he had it. Made a clever little pass through to Jones we’re he should of done better. He pressed well a few times winning the ball back. You could have xavi and iniesta in our midfield at times and they wouldn’t do anything if we played the style we currently play. That’s not me comparing payero to any of the 2 before someone says it! 
 

something is clearly not right with the club at the moment. Manager and club working against each other than working together. Hopefully that changes but can’t see it personally. 

[Humpty 3,261]

I'll be honest because i want Payero to succeed, but i have noticed him hiding from the ball a little bit at times. I imagine this is when he's trying to catch him breath but his lack of influence on the game's he played so far would back that up. He's finding his place in the team intermittently so it's going to be tough for him to find consistency any time soon. It's especially tough for a midfielder to adjust to the pace of the championship and particularly in the circumstances he now finds himself. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of output from him this season unless we pick up significant injuries so he can get a run in the team.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

12 hours ago, ChipBarrington said:

One thing I loved to see as well was Bamba controlling the line and organising everyone at a defensive free kick in the 2nd half. Absolutely bawling at everyone - you love to see it

We have sorely missed a proper leader and organiser at the back. Just a shame we're gonna need a replacement for Bamba sooner rather than later.

 

[Will 2,958]

3 minutes ago, Humpty said:

I'll be honest because i want Payero to succeed, but i have noticed him hiding from the ball a little bit at times. I imagine this is when he's trying to catch him breath but his lack of influence on the game's he played so far would back that up. He's finding his place in the team intermittently so it's going to be tough for him to find consistency any time soon. It's especially tough for a midfielder to adjust to the pace of the championship and particularly in the circumstances he now finds himself. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of output from him this season unless we pick up significant injuries so he can get a run in the team.

This was my view from the Reading game. I really want him to succeed, and I think a lot of Warnocks criticism of him post game was unfair. But he wasn't showing for the ball much if at all, now if Warnock doesn't know his best position it's probably fair to say that Payero doesn't know what he's meant to be doing when he is on the pitch, which very much lines up with what I saw against Reading. He looked lost between midfield and attack, like he was asked to play as a number 10 almost, but in a team where a number 10 doesn't really fit.

[Neverbefore 10,942]

I didn't really see a man hiding from the ball in his performance as at all Vs reading, I saw a man who knew he wasn't going to get the ball. Subtle difference but it's there.