Boro v Sheffield United 2-0 (Watmore, McNair)

[Humpty 3,261]

The ball flying over your head for 90 mins and not showing for a pass aren’t subtle differences. I’m pretty sure I could identify the difference.

[Will 2,958]

46 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I didn't really see a man hiding from the ball in his performance as at all Vs reading, I saw a man who knew he wasn't going to get the ball. Subtle difference but it's there. 

 

Well if he stands behind people and doesn't show for the ball, they become one and the same.

[Neverbefore 10,941]

4 minutes ago, Will said:

Well if he stands behind people and doesn't show for the ball, they become one and the same.

True but the reason behind it is equally important. I don't believe it's laziness. It's a combination of confidence and knowledge that the tactics mean it doesn't matter if he shows or not. The latter two he can't be blamed for, so I don't see how he can be criticised for it.

[Will 2,958]

3 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

True but the reason behind it is equally important. I don't believe it's laziness. It's a combination of confidence and knowledge that the tactics mean it doesn't matter if he shows or not. The latter two he can't be blamed for, so I don't see how he can be criticised for it.

I also don't believe it's laziness, and I don't think either me or Humpty suggested it was. Laziness definitely wasn't a worry, he went crunching into a few tackles and was pressing well in my opinion. I think he looked lost and confused on what his role was when we had the ball, it's impossible for us to know whose fault that is but I would certainly lean the same way you do in saying it is probably Warnock's. I think to an extent Warnock has set him up to fail, how can a player play to the best of his ability when the manager openly admits he doesn't know where/how to play him? However, none of that stops him from making space for himself and showing for the ball, rather than hiding.

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

23 minutes ago, Will said:

I also don't believe it's laziness, and I don't think either me or Humpty suggested it was. Laziness definitely wasn't a worry, he went crunching into a few tackles and was pressing well in my opinion. I think he looked lost and confused on what his role was when we had the ball, it's impossible for us to know whose fault that is but I would certainly lean the same way you do in saying it is probably Warnock's. I think to an extent Warnock has set him up to fail, how can a player play to the best of his ability when the manager openly admits he doesn't know where/how to play him? However, none of that stops him from making space for himself and showing for the ball, rather than hiding.

This is it - he clearly didn't know what the hell he was meant to be doing. Also the guy spoke zero English as of two months ago. 

Our midfields job is to tear around like blue-ass flies and lump it in the general direction of the forwards. Then you cross your fingers and hope someone does something special (like Watmore did on Tuesday). 

He's probably never played in a team like that.

 

[Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die 1,181]

15 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

This is it - he clearly didn't know what the hell he was meant to be doing. Also the guy spoke zero English as of two months ago. 

Our midfields job is to tear around like blue-ass flies and lump it in the general direction of the forwards. Then you cross your fingers and hope someone does something special (like Watmore did on Tuesday). 

He's probably never played in a team like that.

 

Very embarrassing our game plan is. It's so easy to counter to even Sheffield got in a few times the only difference is we took our chances. 

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,972]

32 minutes ago, Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die said:

Very embarrassing our game plan is. It's so easy to counter to even Sheffield got in a few times the only difference is we took our chances. 

[Humpty 3,261]

1 hour ago, Will said:

I also don't believe it's laziness, and I don't think either me or Humpty suggested it was. Laziness definitely wasn't a worry, he went crunching into a few tackles and was pressing well in my opinion. I think he looked lost and confused on what his role was when we had the ball, it's impossible for us to know whose fault that is but I would certainly lean the same way you do in saying it is probably Warnock's. I think to an extent Warnock has set him up to fail, how can a player play to the best of his ability when the manager openly admits he doesn't know where/how to play him? However, none of that stops him from making space for himself and showing for the ball, rather than hiding.

Absolutely… factor in a lack of confidence in his convictions as well. Asserting yourself on a new set of team mates, in a new country, in a different league and with new instructions from your new boss is not the easiest transition for everyone. We don’t have a great insight into his natural character yet. Some in that scenario would hit it like a wrecking ball demanding the ball others might take a while to grow into it.

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

1 hour ago, Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die said:

Very embarrassing our game plan is. It's so easy to counter to even Sheffield got in a few times the only difference is we took our chances. 

Yup, I'd imagine setting up a game plan against us is pretty simple. 

Double up on our wingers and stop them getting in the box, forcing them to pass back or sling a cross to no-one. The longer it stays 0-0 the more tired and out of position we'll get.

Be patient and sucker the midfield in as they try to man mark and press individually, then break with a runner when spaces open up. Easy peasy for any team that can pass and move effectively. 

Bit of movement in the final third to exploit slow centre halves and you're golden 🙌

[Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die 1,181]

24 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

Yup, I'd imagine setting up a game plan against us is pretty simple. 

Double up on our wingers and stop them getting in the box, forcing them to pass back or sling a cross to no-one. The longer it stays 0-0 the more tired and out of position we'll get.

Be patient and sucker the midfield in as they try to man mark and press individually, then break with a runner when spaces open up. Easy peasy for any team that can pass and move effectively. 

Bit of movement in the final third to exploit slow centre halves and you're golden 🙌

That's the one 👏👏👏

[Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die 1,181]

1 hour ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Glad you saw it 🤣🤣

[sanddancer 1,967]

I don’t blame the young lad I blame the tactics employed by NW, I blame the players for not doing the basics, move, receive, pass and repeat. It’s not that hard and we watch even the basic teams pass through or around our midfield and defensive doing exactly the same thing. One does not need the ball to influence a game, it’s as simple as creating space, providing options and pulling players with you by moving into spaces. We have to many players that won’t work hard enough, or possibly they are but tired from chasing opposition who employ the tactics I just mentioned. 
 

I have said it before and I’ll keep repeating the same, NW must stop using the derogatory label foreigners, he needs to stop publicly shaming players and he needs to improve his communication skills. 

[p_mards 1,365]

I can understand Warnock not wanting to play Siliki as he has struggled so far, and he was especially terrible against Blackpool. He started that game alright but his head absolutely went as the game developed and he was a liability at times. It was akin to when Emnes was low on confidence and couldn't do basic things. He needs to learn the physical side a lot better as there was a few times when he was naive with the physicality of opposition players. He seems good at finding space to get onto the ball - it's more that when he's on it he doesn't look comfortable and struggles to link up with teammates. Payero has struggled with the physicality too, but has also struggled in other ways. He can be a too rash in tackles and has struggled to get onto the ball and function effectively in Warnock's style of football. 

Both of Siliki and Payero haven't been helped with us constantly changing formation due to injury problems and having a manager like Warnock whose first priority is to get points, so the environment for them has been awful; Much like the past decade and more of us not being a good environment for players to develop within. Both seem to need to know what team shape they are working in and a head coach who will micro-manage their development through high quality coaching on the training pitch and in games - which I'm sure will be a key part of the head coaches role that Scott will appoint for next season. At the moment, the players and Warnock are both understandably struggling with the situation, and whilst Warnock's critical comments are absolutely unnecessary, it's neither of their faults directly as the situation has been created by Gibson wanting this transition season with Scott and Warnock both here. Whilst Warnock remains our manager, Siliki and Payero seem casualties of the transition period under him.

If Payero is in a similar position come January, and it's looking like Warnock is staying until the end of the season, it wouldn't surprise me is Scott arranges Payero a short-term loan into an environment that will aid his development. He's only going to go backwards and get unsettled sat on the bench for a whole season.

[sanddancer 1,967]

10 hours ago, p_mards said:

I can understand Warnock not wanting to play Siliki as he has struggled so far, and he was especially terrible against Blackpool. He started that game alright but his head absolutely went as the game developed and he was a liability at times. It was akin to when Emnes was low on confidence and couldn't do basic things. He needs to learn the physical side a lot better as there was a few times when he was naive with the physicality of opposition players. He seems good at finding space to get onto the ball - it's more that when he's on it he doesn't look comfortable and struggles to link up with teammates. Payero has struggled with the physicality too, but has also struggled in other ways. He can be a too rash in tackles and has struggled to get onto the ball and function effectively in Warnock's style of football. 

Both of Siliki and Payero haven't been helped with us constantly changing formation due to injury problems and having a manager like Warnock whose first priority is to get points, so the environment for them has been awful; Much like the past decade and more of us not being a good environment for players to develop within. Both seem to need to know what team shape they are working in and a head coach who will micro-manage their development through high quality coaching on the training pitch and in games - which I'm sure will be a key part of the head coaches role that Scott will appoint for next season. At the moment, the players and Warnock are both understandably struggling with the situation, and whilst Warnock's critical comments are absolutely unnecessary, it's neither of their faults directly as the situation has been created by Gibson wanting this transition season with Scott and Warnock both here. Whilst Warnock remains our manager, Siliki and Payero seem casualties of the transition period under him.

If Payero is in a similar position come January, and it's looking like Warnock is staying until the end of the season, it wouldn't surprise me is Scott arranges Payero a short-term loan into an environment that will aid his development. He's only going to go backwards and get unsettled sat on the bench for a whole season.

I am not disagreeing with what you suggest but the question beggars to be asked, why bring players not suited to English football. To suggest we are bringing players to develop raises serious questions about the role of the academy. 
We have produced some gem players who are constantly sent on loan to gain  experience but you are suggesting we bought players not fit for purpose to develop. Therefore I think there is a flaw in your aragument and more likely is, we bought duff players or NW simply does not like foreigners. 

I believe NW will be judged over the next 3 games and if the performance and results are not favourable we may well see change.