Boro vs Birmingham 0-2

[AnglianRed 6,320]

2 hours ago, DurhamRed said:

The thing is we wait next summer for a new manager. Then they'll come out with we got a slow project 3 year plan bullshit. I don't wanna see us in this league for another 4 seasons we gotta get promoted as quickly as possible. The club just doesn't seem to have the urgency 

Why are you in such a rush to get into the PL...especially considering the state the club is in right now?

Look at Norwich and Leeds. They were in far better shape than Boro, stormed to promotion, but are struggling for survival now.

That "slow project 3-year plan bullshit" is precisely the road the club needs to go down if we to have any hope of promotion - let alone staying up.

We have tried throwing money at managers before and hoping for the best...didn't work out too well. We have to grow the club more sustainably, if we don't want to simply repeat the cycles of boom and bust we've been through before.

I don't think you are aware of quite how much work and rebuilding is needed before Boro can have a realistic shot at the PL. We are so far away from clubs like Fulham and Bournemouth its not even funny.

As Rat Catcher said, we simply don't have the money to instantly assemble a promotion chasing squad...and even if we did, would you want to blow that money on Neil Warnock - a manager who will be gone at the end of the season?

Whoever succeeds Warnock will need at least a couple of seasons to build the squad they want. Maybe by then we can have a proper shot at going up, but it will take 2-3 years.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

50 minutes ago, Humpty said:

We're certainly never going to have the funds to stay in the Premier League....if we never actually reach the Premier League.

I think what Rat Catcher is referring to is that right now the club would need so much investment to stay in the PL, we'd be in danger of repeating the past mistakes of spending beyond our means, with no guarantee of staying up.

What we need to try and do to avoid that is to develop the squad in a sustainable way, so that even if we were to get relegated, we wouldn't need to have a fire sale and go through more drastic cost-cutting, as we have done previously. Be in a situation where we could use parachute payments to improve the squad, rather than service debts.

 

[Humpty 3,261]

There is no guarantee of staying in the Premier League whether you splurge money on the squad or build the squad in a sustainable way. 

The bottom line is that the club needs Premier League money to grow. Whether that means going up, coming down and building that way, then so be it. The sooner that happens the better. I've never understood the argument that "we're not ready to go up" better a season spent in the Premier League than the Championship. 

[Riverside94 962]

2 hours ago, Humpty said:

Quite a sizable quota of us were never fooled by these wins. After all most (some) of us have been watching us for the vast majority of the season. 

I’ve watched every game bar one this season and I agree we have totally underperformed for a lot of it. I would also argue we’ve played some really good stuff in some of the games we have lost and so thought some criticism of the team and Warnock has been over the top at times, and some times justified also. What I was getting at though is when we were winning the last 3 people went quiet but all of a sudden we loose one and it’s doom and gloom. Knowing us we will go and beat West Brom and everyone will be talking up promotion again. I was just pointing out some fans who seem to change like the wind. This is Boro, we are always up and down.

My view for what it’s worth is I liked Warnock until around the point last season he started to talk badly about Akpom in the media and put down our squad and promotion ambitions, when really it was still within reach. He seemed to throw in the towel publicly. 

That being said I was happy at the beginning of the season with the signings we were making and was happy to have him for one last season to see if we could push for the play offs.

like I said we have underperformed so far and capable of a lot more I feel. Would a new manager change this? Maybe, but we may end up like we are winning and losing and float around mid table and get in a manager that isn’t part of the bigger plan yet. I’d rather we keep Warnock and let the club work behind the scenes on a fresh start come the summer.

whatever decision is made I just hope the club get it right this time and Scott improves some of the decisions and plans we have made in the past

[DurhamRed 2,047]

2 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Why are you in such a rush to get into the PL...especially considering the state the club is in right now?

Look at Norwich and Leeds. They were in far better shape than Boro, stormed to promotion, but are struggling for survival now.

That "slow project 3-year plan bullshit" is precisely the road the club needs to go down if we to have any hope of promotion - let alone staying up.

We have tried throwing money at managers before and hoping for the best...didn't work out too well. We have to grow the club more sustainably, if we don't want to simply repeat the cycles of boom and bust we've been through before.

I don't think you are aware of quite how much work and rebuilding is needed before Boro can have a realistic shot at the PL. We are so far away from clubs like Fulham and Bournemouth its not even funny.

As Rat Catcher said, we simply don't have the money to instantly assemble a promotion chasing squad...and even if we did, would you want to blow that money on Neil Warnock - a manager who will be gone at the end of the season?

Whoever succeeds Warnock will need at least a couple of seasons to build the squad they want. Maybe by then we can have a proper shot at going up, but it will take 2-3 years.

We be much better getting up and finishing bottom with the finances. The club needs the prem money to grow the longer we remain in this league further we fall. Alongside that boro have spent the most outside of the parashoot clubs and Bournmouth. So we should be doing alot better than what we are. That comes down to Warnock 

[ManBearPig 1,853]

1 hour ago, Riverside94 said:

I’ve watched every game bar one this season and I agree we have totally underperformed for a lot of it. I would also argue we’ve played some really good stuff in some of the games we have lost and so thought some criticism of the team and Warnock has been over the top at times, and some times justified also. What I was getting at though is when we were winning the last 3 people went quiet but all of a sudden we loose one and it’s doom and gloom. Knowing us we will go and beat West Brom and everyone will be talking up promotion again. I was just pointing out some fans who seem to change like the wind. This is Boro, we are always up and down.

My view for what it’s worth is I liked Warnock until around the point last season he started to talk badly about Akpom in the media and put down our squad and promotion ambitions, when really it was still within reach. He seemed to throw in the towel publicly. 

That being said I was happy at the beginning of the season with the signings we were making and was happy to have him for one last season to see if we could push for the play offs.

like I said we have underperformed so far and capable of a lot more I feel. Would a new manager change this? Maybe, but we may end up like we are winning and losing and float around mid table and get in a manager that isn’t part of the bigger plan yet. I’d rather we keep Warnock and let the club work behind the scenes on a fresh start come the summer.

whatever decision is made I just hope the club get it right this time and Scott improves some of the decisions and plans we have made in the past

Interesting post but do you not think that the team are playing Warnocks tactics and as a result are under performing because of him? I am adamant that this team has more to offer and Warnock is the hand brake that is holding us back from playing better. 

[Changing Times 12,347]

8 hours ago, Barnaby said:

 

Please hear me out... NW's remit is to stabilise The club and keep it in this Div...We are not going to do that battling at the top...A lot of younger fans won't understand this... How close we came to following Sunderland into the third tier of the EFL...Covid came along and put a spanner in the works...I've wrote off this season(and prob next season too)but at least we'll have a club to support...This is just me looking at the situation from a distance...and picking up snippets

Stabilise the club from what?  We finished 5th, then 7th, then somebody somewhere (Gibson) decided to appoint Woodgate as Head Coach, surround him with other novices, and we predictably struggled.  Other than rectifying that mistake there wasn't a great deal else that needed to be done to stabilise us as you put it.  At no point have we had a group of players anywhere near the three worst squads in the league.

[Changing Times 12,347]

4 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

Didn't understand the Howson decision either.

Especially when it's an unchanged side on the back of one of our better performances of the season, why alter the formation?

Howson just doesn't work in the midfield anymore and he was really good at right back in the last two games.

Bizarre.

When you say you didn't understand the decision, do you mean you didn't agree with it, or that you really didn't understand it?  Cos I think it's fairly easy to understand - we have a manager who thinks Howson is great in midfield, and has gone out of his way to pretty much say that on more than one occasion.  All of his decisions are correct, so wherever he decides to play someone, it's the right decision.  If it doesn't work out that's because of whatever other reasons he decides are responsible.

[TeaCider24 12,646]

5 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Stabilise the club from what?  We finished 5th, then 7th, then somebody somewhere (Gibson) decided to appoint Woodgate as Head Coach, surround him with other novices, and we predictably struggled.  Other than rectifying that mistake there wasn't a great deal else that needed to be done to stabilise us as you put it.  At no point have we had a group of players anywhere near the three worst squads in the league.

It's a fair point.

Appointing Woodgate was always a baffling decision, he had almost zero experience at senior level.

A year as the assistant to Pulis, in a season which ended in failure, and he then gets dropped in the driver seat.

One of the most questionable decisions that Gibson has made as owner.

[TheJew 2,938]

You're better going up and then.buying 3/4 of the top Championship players. Then if you go down, stick with the bulk of that squad and go again.

Players historically like Jarrod Bowen etc.

[TeaCider24 12,646]

18 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

When you say you didn't understand the decision, do you mean you didn't agree with it, or that you really didn't understand it?  Cos I think it's fairly easy to understand - we have a manager who thinks Howson is great in midfield, and has gone out of his way to pretty much say that on more than one occasion.  All of his decisions are correct, so wherever he decides to play someone, it's the right decision.  If it doesn't work out that's because of whatever other reasons he decides are responsible.

I don't understand or agree with it.

I can understand Warnock having a fixation/fondness for Howson, but surely Warnock especially would have recognised Howson was playing well at right back, so why change it?

If Dijksteel had started at right back, I could understand as he wouldn't want to drop him out of the side, though I'd disagree with that, but the team was unchanged.

[TheJew 2,938]

If we want to go up, we should go back to the trusted 4231

Jones and Hernandez out wide.

Tav no.10

Crooks and Payero sitting.

Sprorar/ Uche up top.

Easy really.

[kentucky 341]

Gibson as made most of the signings for years, he's put us in the state were in, our one success was when the Chelsea guy got involved ,he soon moved on.

[ManBearPig 1,853]

42 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

When you say you didn't understand the decision, do you mean you didn't agree with it, or that you really didn't understand it?  Cos I think it's fairly easy to understand - we have a manager who thinks Howson is great in midfield, and has gone out of his way to pretty much say that on more than one occasion.  All of his decisions are correct, so wherever he decides to play someone, it's the right decision.  If it doesn't work out that's because of whatever other reasons he decides are responsible.

See also loaning out Spence and Coulson for players who he ‘trusts’ and then moaning we haven’t got the strength in depth for suitable cover 👀

[Rioch's Braves 711]

I would be far happier getting promotion sooner rather than later, if you look at Brighton and Burnley they have no standout superstars in the squad but have managed to hold their own in the PL. Its about getting the right manager in who knows what he's doing and who has a scouting network that can source good quality players at reasonable prices.  I don't go with the punching above your weight scenario we have proven that we fill the Riverside to 30000 plus capacity when in the PL, nobody is going to compete with the elite PL clubs owned by billionaires, but after that there is no other clubs in the league that are particularly outstanding. We need the chairman to show the same ambition he had when Robson and McLaren were managers, so that's no more dinosaurs in charge but an ambitious modern football manager who comes with a decent track record who wants to be competitive in the PL.