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Boro v Swansea 1-0 (Jones)


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4 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Just got round to watching the highlights. I forgot about that save Daniels had to make in the first half from... Manning, was it? Can't have been an easy one either, looked like our defender had entirely obscured his view of the ball.

First view of the Watmore chance too. Takes a great touch round the defender but once he reaches the box, he tries to take his time to see what the keeper will do and I think in his exhaustion just forgets he needs to hit the ball quickly enough. He absolutely ran himself into the ground first half trying to scrap for opportunities.

If you see the behind the ball angle on that shot too it's got some real swerve on it; it's actually a really difficult one for Daniels and he does well.

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8 hours ago, pikerman said:

Yes we got three points, but after a complete change in direction from Wilder and his coaching staff and a more fluent type of play emerge over the last few games, we saw some players revert to type and start just kicking it aimlessly down field. I do not see how pointing this out and being worried by it is negative and complaing

You are ignoring the point here, mate ...

It's ok to change tactics for a game like this .. It's not like we have made a permanent switch .. We just adapted to what the opponents brought to the game. Be glad we are more than a one trick pony and we actually have a plan B
 

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9 hours ago, pikerman said:

Yes we got three points, but after a complete change in direction from Wilder and his coaching staff and a more fluent type of play emerge over the last few games, we saw some players revert to type and start just kicking it aimlessly down field. I do not see how pointing this out and being worried by it is negative and complaing

Swansea make a lot of teams play like that. Don't fret about one game vs a team that averages 66% possession a game. If it continues into multiple games - especially against weaker opponents, then I think you'll have a valid point.

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14 hours ago, Brunners said:

If you see the behind the ball angle on that shot too it's got some real swerve on it; it's actually a really difficult one for Daniels and he does well.

It was a brilliant save. But if I remember correctly he only had to make it because he started their move by punching a routine ball from the their corner that he could have just caught when under no pressure at all. I'm certainly not at ease with him.

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we dont have a decent keeper. daniels and lumley are both error prone. they both look nervous to me. maybe they are just not good enough at this level. both are still quite inexperienced, maybe one of them will mature into a decent keeper over the next year or two. i think lumley looks the better of the two from what i've seen so far.

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1 hour ago, Borodane said:

It was a brilliant save. But if I remember correctly he only had to make it because he started their move by punching a routine ball from the their corner that he could have just caught when under no pressure at all. I'm certainly not at ease with him.

Yep pretty sure you're right on that. I don't feel entirely comfortable either but I'm still a Dejan believer so I'm a little biased lol.

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1 hour ago, Dynamo Kev said:

we dont have a decent keeper. daniels and lumley are both error prone. they both look nervous to me. maybe they are just not good enough at this level. both are still quite inexperienced, maybe one of them will mature into a decent keeper over the next year or two. i think lumley looks the better of the two from what i've seen so far.

I always prefer to see an older keeper between the sticks. Besides having had more time to develop their technique and learn to read play, they tend to be more confident and able to command their boxes, work with the defence etc.

I really would like to see Stojanovic given another chance. Failing that, bring in an experienced keeper in January...even if its just a loan deal.

 

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Part of the issue for me with Daniels on Saturday was that when we were under pressure and a few huffing and puffing he should have held onto the ball a little longer, roll it three yards and then fake a clearance only to abruptly stop and feign a shouting match with his team mates for not being in position then start the process all over again before hoofing it.

The ball seemed like a hot potato at times with him and he seemingly didn't read the game and realise he had an opportunity to allow his team mates an extra lung full or two of air and to break the opponents momentum. These are very basic Goalkeeping techniques and don't even require being a great shot stopper.

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I still don’t get why there is a deep analysis of Daniel and our goalkeepers when there is clearly greater problems in the quality of outfield players. I can’t remember a time a keeper has been slagged so much for not conceding a goal. 
Given Swansea had pressed so high in the second half, our midfield where loosing the battle with a tiring back line, the fact there was plenty of green behind Swansea defence, and we have a history of conceding some stupid goals his decision making was right. If from recent games you take away the amount of self inflicted goals how many have we conceded, not many. Anyway I am a great believer in the term, if in doubt, kick it out. It’s not pretty but you get to reassess the situation. 

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33 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Part of the issue for me with Daniels on Saturday was that when we were under pressure and a few huffing and puffing he should have held onto the ball a little longer, roll it three yards and then fake a clearance only to abruptly stop and feign a shouting match with his team mates for not being in position then start the process all over again before hoofing it.

The ball seemed like a hot potato at times with him and he seemingly didn't read the game and realise he had an opportunity to allow his team mates an extra lung full or two of air and to break the opponents momentum. These are very basic Goalkeeping techniques and don't even require being a great shot stopper.

Well that's part of trying to play the counter attack, isn't it? For every lung full you give yourselves, you also give it to your opponents and get them prepared to defend. It wasn't like he was rushing his goal kicks either but when the ball was in his hands, it was usually after a period of Swansea pressure and he had his head up wanting to get us back up the pitch quickly which is exactly what you should be doing if you're playing on the counter-attack.

We still wanted the second goal so as a group, we tried to counter them, we kept pressing them until the end, we didn't sit back and try and re-form our unit as a team when the opportunity might be there for a chance. So I guess you could say in my eyes, it wasn't about the keeper's decision, it was a tactical decision for the team. We wanted to kill the game off, even without possession we wanted to match or better Swansea's tempo. So I'm not sure why that comes back onto just the keeper.

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1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

I always prefer to see an older keeper between the sticks. Besides having had more time to develop their technique and learn to read play, they tend to be more confident and able to command their boxes, work with the defence etc.

I really would like to see Stojanovic given another chance. Failing that, bring in an experienced keeper in January...even if its just a loan deal.

 

Luke Daniels is turning 34 next month, if he's not developed his game by now it's not happening!

Goalkeepers aren't just there to keep clean sheets anymore. They set the entire tone for how the team plays in modern football - look at the difference ramsdale has made to arsenal this season.

I'm not overly worried about it because wilder has already talked about how he wants a good keeper so I'm sure he's already identified that the 3 we have aren't good enough and come the end of Jan well have someone more suited to the way we play. 

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50 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Luke Daniels is turning 34 next month, if he's not developed his game by now it's not happening!

Goalkeepers aren't just there to keep clean sheets anymore. They set the entire tone for how the team plays in modern football - look at the difference ramsdale has made to arsenal this season.

I'm not overly worried about it because wilder has already talked about how he wants a good keeper so I'm sure he's already identified that the 3 we have aren't good enough and come the end of Jan well have someone more suited to the way we play. 

Bloody hell - I had no idea he was that old!

Maybe he's just past it then, or was never very good? 🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

We wanted to kill the game off, even without possession we wanted to match or better Swansea's tempo. So I'm not sure why that comes back onto just the keeper.

We were hanging on to a slender lead with Swansea dragging us all over never mind matching or bettering Swansea's tempo.

In the first half we acquitted ourselves well but in the second half we were running on empty. You could see that clearly illustrated with Watmore's delayed attempt, he had run out of legs and Wilder recognised the same and subbed him immediately. There was one "clearance" that springs to mind from Daniels quickly up the pitch to Sporar surrounded by three Swansea players and nobody in a Red shirt anywhere near him as his team mates hadn't time to get up the pitch. Even the commentator  mentioned what an absolute waste of a ball and it simply conceded possession straight back to the Swans putting us back under the cosh. 

He seems a decent shot stopper but nervy on crosses. His worst aspect is the easiest to fix and that is being game savvy but at his age its surprising that he hasn't learnt the finer points of being a Keeper. A good rollicking and time spent with a Coach this week at Rockliffe may help but I think it's a bit late in his career for that and I doubt that Wilder sees it any differently. 

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6 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

We were hanging on to a slender lead with Swansea dragging us all over never mind matching or bettering Swansea's tempo.

In the first half we acquitted ourselves well but in the second half we were running on empty. You could see that clearly illustrated with Watmore's delayed attempt, he had run out of legs and Wilder recognised the same and subbed him immediately. There was one "clearance" that springs to mind from Daniels quickly up the pitch to Sporar surrounded by three Swansea players and nobody in a Red shirt anywhere near him as his team mates hadn't time to get up the pitch. Even the commentator  mentioned what an absolute waste of a ball and it simply conceded possession straight back to the Swans putting us back under the cosh. 

He seems a decent shot stopper but nervy on crosses. His worst aspect is the easiest to fix and that is being game savvy but at his age its surprising that he hasn't learnt the finer points of being a Keeper. A good rollicking and time spent with a Coach this week at Rockliffe may help but I think it's a bit late in his career for that and I doubt that Wilder sees it any differently. 

But we still went for it, that's what I'm saying mate. Especially whilst Watmore and Sporar were still on the pitch. The team were still trying to get the goal and expending what was left of their energy to do it. Watmore's big chance came about because of that, despite how knackered he was when it came time to take the shot. Even when Uche and Hernandez came on, they were trying to get in behind their defence, trying to keep them thinking at the back rather than just sit in and let them pass it round until they found a way through. Were this a Warnock or a Pulis team, I think that's what we would have done and it would have been by design.

I just don't think that idea comes down to the keeper. The whole team was still trying to press in the right moments. If that wasn't the plan, then it's more than just Daniels' fault and if it was the plan and you feel it was the wrong plan, it wasn't any player's fault. So for it to land on just the keeper feels a bit crappy to me.

For everything else, in this game he kept a clean sheet and didn't really put a foot wrong in doing it barring perhaps the McNair clearance that was needed (which I also think there are caveats for). If Wilder wants to improve on him, I'm not gonna complain, he's not the best keeper in the world. But I think he's doing a decent job since he came in and some of the stick he gets goes too far, for me.

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