Derby County.

[MadAmster 81]

1 minute ago, Brunners said:

Hey man, I'm not the EFL. All I know is every club everywhere uses straight line amortisation. I don't think you can be entirely surprised that trying something different got shut down.

EFL aware of the change from 2015. Not saying you are the EFL Brunners. I'm merely a fan trying to make sense of the situation. If linear wasn't a rule, what rule did we break? If we broke a rule, like we did by going into Admin and getting a 12 point deduction, I wouldn't be disagreeing. However, it now seems, confirmed by the EFL statement this week, that linear depreciation wasn't a rule, which rule did DCFC break that led to the £100K etc? 

[Will 2,958]

49 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

According to the BBC news its most likely because his mummy told him to. Its her 75th anniversary this year, plus the longer it drags on, the more the name of the Royal Family gets dragged through the mud.

So rather than pursue a long, drawn out court case, its just more convenient to cough up. Doesn't look great for the other side though - just makes it look like they were only ever out for money. 🤷‍♂️

 

It was a civil case, all they were ever getting was money...

[MadAmster 81]

6 minutes ago, KeithLambsFaxMachine said:

I suspect it's just become an explicit rule because previously it was assumed that clubs would depreciate assets in the standard way, like all other businesses do. Similar to the way that there were a shed-load more accounting laws introduced into the US statute after Enron (who also chose their own rules on how to value assets, among other things).

Just because the laws weren't explicitly written down before, doesn't mean that what they were doing previously was legal.

Using a sliding scale for depreciation is legal. Many businesses use it. HMRC is happy with it.

[Will 2,958]

3 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Using a sliding scale for depreciation is legal. Many businesses use it. HMRC is happy with it.

No other football clubs in the country use it. Which I'm sure you'll agree is more pertinent to this case than how a building firm amortises it's assets.

[MadAmster 81]

2 minutes ago, Will said:

No other football clubs in the country use it. Which I'm sure you'll agree is more pertinent to this case than how a building firm amortises it's assets.

Surely, the acid test should be was any rule or Law broken? There wasn't, it would appear. As I said previously, Mel vastly overspent and that ended up with the club going into Admin and getting a 12 point deduction. Absolutely no argument from me on that point.

With regard to the sliding scale amortisation methodology, it's a valid and legal accounting method, previously not banned by the EFL. Any and all Limited Companies, and DCFC is a limited company as is MFC and all other PL and EFL clubs, may legally use it. That is a fact.

Another fact is that the EFL has now chosen to disallow it. Until this week it wasn't disallowed. That raises the question of whether the £100K fine, instruction to resubmit amended accounts mirroring what wasn't even a rule 7 years ago or even 7 days ago, that led to the extra 9 point deduction ought to be rescinded. Had a rule been broken, I would say the sanction was correct. The rule wasn't in place until a couple of days ago so we didn't break it.

[Will 2,958]

25 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

With regard to the sliding scale amortisation methodology, it's a valid and legal accounting method, previously not banned by the EFL. Any and all Limited Companies, and DCFC is a limited company as is MFC and all other PL and EFL clubs, may legally use it. That is a fact.

Another fact is that the EFL has now chosen to disallow it. Until this week it wasn't disallowed. That raises the question of whether the £100K fine, instruction to resubmit amended accounts mirroring what wasn't even a rule 7 years ago or even 7 days ago, that led to the extra 9 point deduction ought to be rescinded. Had a rule been broken, I would say the sanction was correct. The rule wasn't in place until a couple of days ago so we didn't break it.

It is a valid and legal accounting method. It is not used by football clubs in this country. Both of those things are facts. Rulings can be made based on precedent rather than hard and fast rules.

I don't really understand how you can be upset by the requirement to bring you in line with every club you were competing with from an accounting perspective. Everyone else used the same accounting methodology as it was the established standard in football. In bringing yourselves in line from an accounting perspective it was found that you had indeed breached FFP rules, resulting in your point deduction. The only punishment you got for using the accounting method was a £100k fine.

[Mr_Maz 2,899]

51 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Using a sliding scale for depreciation is legal. Many businesses use it. HMRC is happy with it.

true, but even though a straight line rule was not explicit, it was the standard used by all clubs.  Derby's method was not standard in football, and gave them an unfair advantage over other clubs, and that goes against EFL rules. 

The EFL should have jumped on this sooner, rather than waiting for clubs like Boro pointing it out.

But that doesn't vinidicate Derby in any way

[Mr_Maz 2,899]

39 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Surely, the acid test should be was any rule or Law broken? There wasn't, it would appear. As I said previously, Mel vastly overspent and that ended up with the club going into Admin and getting a 12 point deduction. Absolutely no argument from me on that point.

With regard to the sliding scale amortisation methodology, it's a valid and legal accounting method, previously not banned by the EFL. Any and all Limited Companies, and DCFC is a limited company as is MFC and all other PL and EFL clubs, may legally use it. That is a fact.

Another fact is that the EFL has now chosen to disallow it. Until this week it wasn't disallowed. That raises the question of whether the £100K fine, instruction to resubmit amended accounts mirroring what wasn't even a rule 7 years ago or even 7 days ago, that led to the extra 9 point deduction ought to be rescinded. Had a rule been broken, I would say the sanction was correct. The rule wasn't in place until a couple of days ago so we didn't break it.

9 pts - 3 pts per season with 3 suspended for each breach.... you should be grateful it wasn't more

[BoroAbroad 321]

Interesting arguments from both sides. But ultimately it comes down to the fact that MM was a naughty boy and knew it. He gambled and lost.  

[SirBrian 18]

1 hour ago, Uwe said:

Couple of things SB

 First of all, welcome to the forum. It’s always nice to have opposing fans giving their pov. 
Second, Steve Gibson is a saint and it’s only a matter of time before the Vatican deems it so 😉

 Finally, and I mean this with sincerity what were the Valuations given by the company for pride park. I have no doubt that MM did over estimate the cost but I am very interested by how much and far to last to do my own research 😀

Thanks for the welcome, sadly i am 67 and can remember watching Brian Clough's Derby, and feel so sad how football as gone so low since Sky introduced the PL, along with complete greed from all clubs fighting against one another wishing clubs to be liquidated, EFL changing rules to fit their agenda and we talk about China.

Bury near neighbours Utd/City only had to throw in a couple of million each and the club would have been saved, so what donation would all PL and championship clubs have had to give, for the younger ones on here before the PL the old division one would look after the rest of the leagues along with grass root football, today their is only one league through sky the PL who are not intrested in the rest of football, again their greed they wanted a european super league to make more money for the top 6 and bother the rest of the PL, it will happen.

Ater going through 3 years battling the EFL, gibson and alongside covid(the mental stress as shown on many fans) all genuine Derby fans wish for the nightmare to end, only when the nightmare is finished, then the inquiry will start and hope it is a criminal investigation for the Sports minister and MPs who one has publicly put out in print that the EFL have lied to the MPs so they are not going to let this nightmare be swept under the carpet.

Regulator is now guarenteed for EFL and the PL who have fought tooth and nail to avoid having one, cannot wait what the PL  inquiry will expose, EFL Parry and fit for purpose Ridsdale and the rest of the board will all be gone, lets hope that football will change for the better! and their will be no more owners who through over spending will put the clubs into dire straights like Mel Morris Derby and Ridsdale then of Leeds £103m if i recall in debt.

[TeaCider24 12,639]

A lot of my anger against Derby has subsided since we hammered them.

I would still prefer them to be relegated but I can't get as worked up about them staying up when it's at fellow rulebreakers Reading's expense.

[Brunners 7,982]

25 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

A lot of my anger against Derby has subsided since we hammered them.

I would still prefer them to be relegated but I can't get as worked up about them staying up when it's at fellow rulebreakers Reading's expense.

Plus, however much I want them to get relegated, at least they're trying. Reading might never score or win again and won't let their manager resign.

[TeaCider24 12,639]

He's stirring again.

[Brunners 7,982]

Of course he is, it's all he knows how to do.

[MMC 1,000]

How would he know lmao? They haven't published any accounts since 2018...