MadAmster 81 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 27 minutes ago, MMC said: How would he know lmao? They haven't published any accounts since 2018... If that's true, how could we get a sanction for exceeding FFP AFTER 2018? Link to post Share on other sites
Will 2,958 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, MadAmster said: If that's true, how could we get a sanction for exceeding FFP AFTER 2018? Because you send accounts to the EFL which aren't available to the public. So unless Alan Nixon has a way of getting confidential financial information, he can only see the accounts from companies house. Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, TeaCider24 said: He's stirring again. "Bit in paper tomorrow" Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,218 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 hours ago, MMC said: How would he know lmao? They haven't published any accounts since 2018... They will have accounts though. As a journalist it's entirely possible that he'll be able to obtain a copy. If you wanted to paint a picture of Derby being hard done by then getting that information out there would make a lot of sense. Link to post Share on other sites
Brunners 7,952 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/dcfc-supporters-groups-meet-efl/ Some interesting titbits from the EFL in here. Link to post Share on other sites
Redcar Rioja 5,872 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, Brunners said: https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/dcfc-supporters-groups-meet-efl/ Some interesting titbits from the EFL in here. After trawling through all that this is the bit that I found most interesting: What are the EFL’s biggest concerns on Derby exiting administration? * The amount of money required is very significant – over the last 10 years the maximum deal done for any EFL Club is in the region of £30-35 million. * This figure would not cover the outstanding debt to MSD & HMRC, never mind Football Debts, unsecured creditors and potential stadium costs (including unpaid rent to the stadium company). * If they cannot exit according to the Insolvency policy there is the potential for a further 15 point penalty to be applied. Would Mel Morris pass the Owners’ & Directors’ Test? * Yes – he has only been involved in 1 football club insolvency. The ruling is 2 failures to fail the test. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,218 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 In that case, maybe Steve's settlement with Mel is that Mel invests in Boro 🙌 Link to post Share on other sites
Foogle 2,078 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 32 minutes ago, Changing Times said: In that case, maybe Steve's settlement with Mel is that Mel invests in Boro 🙌 That'd be great news! I can finally crack out my Martyn Waghorn shirt after 3 long years of waiting 😍 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,218 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, Foogle said: That'd be great news! I can finally crack out my Martyn Waghorn shirt after 3 long years of waiting 😍 Reunited, and it feels so good Reunited 'cause we understood There's one perfect fit And, sugar, this one is it We both are so excited 'cause we're reunited, hey, hey 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ScarBoro 836 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 7 hours ago, MadAmster said: EFL aware of the change from 2015. Not saying you are the EFL Brunners. I'm merely a fan trying to make sense of the situation. If linear wasn't a rule, what rule did we break? If we broke a rule, like we did by going into Admin and getting a 12 point deduction, I wouldn't be disagreeing. However, it now seems, confirmed by the EFL statement this week, that linear depreciation wasn't a rule, which rule did DCFC break that led to the £100K etc? Linear isn’t a “rule”, but what is a rule (under FRS 102) is that the accounts must present “a true and fair view”. I’m guessing a bit here based on general accounting knowledge, but the rationale below is likely what tripped Derby up - that and the knowledge that the only reason for changing the policy was to inflate values, not because it was more appropriate. So, for example, if you buy a new vehicle, many businesses will depreciate at say 30% of value. So a car costing £30k will depreciate 30% of £30k = £9k in year 1. In year 2 it will be 30% of £21k = £6.3k etc. This isn’t linear but is seen to be fair as any new vehicle loses the biggest value in the first year and less each subsequent year. So not being linear isn’t in itself a problem, provided the new policy passes the other tests. All other clubs took a straight line depreciation e.g a player on a 4 year contract costing £12m was depreciated at £3m per year, to a zero value at end of contract. Derby said at end of, say, year 1, our player is worth £10m on open market now, so we will only depreciate by £2m in year 1. Then at end of year 2 they said the player is still worth £10m, so will not depreciate at all in year 2. The trouble with that method is that no one actually knows how much a player can be sold for until you try. Then what happens if he loses form in year 3 or gets a bad injury - his value would be a lot less. And what happens if he decides to refuse a transfer deal and lets his contract run down? It could also work other way - a player going into last year of contract who signs a new deal will suddenly have an open market value higher than if he didn’t. So whilst the straight line may not prove accurate for any one player, it is tried and tested and as reasonable as any policy can be given all the unknowns. Whether it’s “fair” or not, the League seem to have taken a view that to put your own valuations on players each year cannot pass a true and fair view, as it is letting the club “manipulate” the values to what they need to provide the profit or loss they need for that year.I’m guessing that’s why they decided it wasn't a reasonable policy and not in line with FRS 102. One other point is that if you change accounting policy I think you are supposed to point that out in accounts and what effect it has. This allows anyone reading the accounts to take that into consideration. I think League have suggested Derby didn’t point that out in the published accounts, so the people checking the accounts at League didn’t know to query it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Naisby 736 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, SirBrian said: LIKE OVER £60M IN VALUATION OF PRIDE PARK PP opened July 1997 and the Construction cost was £28 million, since the opening PP as been valued 3 times by the same valuers an american based company who are on the New York stock exchange 100 top companies, now in your wildest dreams do you think that they would risk their reputation and risk criminal charges against them for Derby County ? Do a little research before coming out with such outlandish statements, and a tip do not take in all what gibson says as true, as we don't with Mel, no doubt you still believe in Santa. LOL The debts of Derby County are reported to be over £60m FACT Derby County under its chairman MM sold Pride Park to himself via a third Company. FACT The Stadium as an asset for FFP and other purposes had been valued independently FACT The Stadium was sold for over £80m Fact MM is willing to sell the Stadium for £20m to the new owners FACT The difference between £80m and £20m is £60m FACT Link to post Share on other sites
Naisby 736 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 9 hours ago, Humpty said: Derby are 100% staying up. Get used to the idea if you don’t like them Not if at least 3 other teams get more points than they do when the season ends. Derby are not the in the top 3 worst teams in the championship, but they have to win points to stay up and hope that the teams above them don’t match them. It will be close but I thinks it’s Derby’s to loose rather than win. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,218 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 12 minutes ago, Naisby said: The debts of Derby County are reported to be over £60m FACT Derby County under its chairman MM sold Pride Park to himself via a third Company. FACT The Stadium as an asset for FFP and other purposes had been valued independently FACT The Stadium was sold for over £80m Fact MM is willing to sell the Stadium for £20m to the new owners FACT The difference between £80m and £20m is £60m FACT You're mixing up debt with FFP, when they aren't the same thing, or sometimes even linked really. Boro have more debt than Derby right now. I think Morris is willing to sell the stadium for £20m (assuming he is) because there is a loan guaranteed against the stadium for that amount so that fee would pay off the loan. Link to post Share on other sites
Naisby 736 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Changing Times said: You're mixing up debt with FFP, when they aren't the same thing, or sometimes even linked really. Boro have more debt than Derby right now. I think Morris is willing to sell the stadium for £20m (assuming he is) because there is a loan guaranteed against the stadium for that amount so that fee would pay off the loan. No, for FFP purposes the Stadium was given an independent valuation by Derby and later by the EFL. Neither independent value was anywhere near £80m+ My post was to the New Derbyphile poster who accused me of not checking my facts. My original post was really more in the ironic realms though as the value of £80m+ and what MM is willing to sell for now are according to the figures discussed as semi fact both around £60m. I implied this was suspicious, it hooked a rabid Derbyphile who clearly didn’t read or understand humorous irony. Link to post Share on other sites
Bosco's Tuft 934 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 9 hours ago, SirBrian said: Thanks for the welcome, sadly i am 67 and can remember watching Brian Clough's Derby, and feel so sad how football as gone so low since Sky introduced the PL, along with complete greed from all clubs fighting against one another wishing clubs to be liquidated, EFL changing rules to fit their agenda and we talk about China. Bury near neighbours Utd/City only had to throw in a couple of million each and the club would have been saved, so what donation would all PL and championship clubs have had to give, for the younger ones on here before the PL the old division one would look after the rest of the leagues along with grass root football, today their is only one league through sky the PL who are not intrested in the rest of football, again their greed they wanted a european super league to make more money for the top 6 and bother the rest of the PL, it will happen. Ater going through 3 years battling the EFL, gibson and alongside covid(the mental stress as shown on many fans) all genuine Derby fans wish for the nightmare to end, only when the nightmare is finished, then the inquiry will start and hope it is a criminal investigation for the Sports minister and MPs who one has publicly put out in print that the EFL have lied to the MPs so they are not going to let this nightmare be swept under the carpet. Regulator is now guarenteed for EFL and the PL who have fought tooth and nail to avoid having one, cannot wait what the PL inquiry will expose, EFL Parry and fit for purpose Ridsdale and the rest of the board will all be gone, lets hope that football will change for the better! and their will be no more owners who through over spending will put the clubs into dire straights like Mel Morris Derby and Ridsdale then of Leeds £103m if i recall in debt. 3 yrs battling the EFL and Gibson? Give over. You spent the first 2 and a half gloating and taking the ***. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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