Uwe 3,545 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 34 minutes ago, MadAmster said: Hi, Ram in peace. I have a question regarding the ongoing issue between your good selves and DCFC. It seems Mr Gibson is playing the "Derby kept us out of the playoffs through cheating" card. Does he have a point? I would say not. Obviously you might say otherwise. In the end, the EFL got a guilty verdict on appeal on just one of 3 grounds, that a small part of the totally legal amortisation method "might have been explained better". There were 2 accounting experts on the original panel and zero on the appeal committee deciding on an accounting method. Strange at the very least IMO. Let's look at the 18/19 season that it's all about. You get promoted by getting points. You looked dead certs with 13 games to go. You then lost 7 and drew 1 of those games. Certainly some of the reason lies with MFC IMO. Also that season Sheffield Wednesday broke FFP and took 3 points off you. Points which would have seen you finish 6th and in the playoffs. You aren't suing the Owls. Why not, didn't they also "cheat you out of the playoffs"? Why is it that only DCFC are in Mr Gibson's sights? I look forward to your thoughts. No one wants Derby to disappear but the EFL are so incompetent at enforcing their own rules Steve Gibson has to press on in this way. It’s just unfortunate that your club Is feeling the brunt of it. I’m fairly confident it will all be resolved SG song want £45m it will be a lot less more notional but he has to make a statement. His argument is with Mel not DCFC. And where is Mel in all this? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 54 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I don't understand why the Derby fans keep going on about this losing run as if it changes things. Does it matter when we lost the games? Whether they were in a row or spread out during the season - you still got the same amount of points for losing those games. 0. The season is 46 games. It's not extra points for the last 13. And Derby still gained extra points for being able to buy / loan players that they otherwise would not have been able to recruit. Our form is irrelevant to any argument as to whether we would have finished within the Play-Off places. The whole point is that your spending allowed you to gain more points than you would've otherwise gained. And it's fair to think it would have been more than a 2 point difference. Thus denying us a place in the play-offs. Edited January 21, 2022 by Tony 4 Link to post Share on other sites
boksicdink 1,942 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Tony said: I don't understand why the Derby fans keep going on about this losing run as if it changes things. Does it matter when we lost the games? Whether they were in a row or spread out during the season - you still got the same amount of points for losing those games. 0. The season is 46 games. It's not extra points for the last 13. I think Will said it the other day and that is if you had an Olympic sprinter who finished in 4th place and didnt get a medal but then it came out that the guy who finished in 3rd was a drugs cheat, the medal gets given to the guy in 4th place because if that other runner wasn't in the race, the other guy would have still finished 3rd. I know in this context it isn't that simple but that's in principle how it should be viewed. Link to post Share on other sites
Dan1234 1,056 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Uwe said: No one wants Derby to disappear but the EFL are so incompetent at enforcing their own rules Steve Gibson has to press on in this way. It’s just unfortunate that your club Is feeling the brunt of it. I’m fairly confident it will all be resolved SG song want £45m it will be a lot less more notional but he has to make a statement. His argument is with Mel not DCFC. And where is Mel in all this? 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Bosco's Tuft 941 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, MadAmster said: Hi, Ram in peace. I have a question regarding the ongoing issue between your good selves and DCFC. It seems Mr Gibson is playing the "Derby kept us out of the playoffs through cheating" card. Does he have a point? I would say not. Obviously you might say otherwise. In the end, the EFL got a guilty verdict on appeal on just one of 3 grounds, that a small part of the totally legal amortisation method "might have been explained better". There were 2 accounting experts on the original panel and zero on the appeal committee deciding on an accounting method. Strange at the very least IMO. Let's look at the 18/19 season that it's all about. You get promoted by getting points. You looked dead certs with 13 games to go. You then lost 7 and drew 1 of those games. Certainly some of the reason lies with MFC IMO. Also that season Sheffield Wednesday broke FFP and took 3 points off you. Points which would have seen you finish 6th and in the playoffs. You aren't suing the Owls. Why not, didn't they also "cheat you out of the playoffs"? Why is it that only DCFC are in Mr Gibson's sights? I look forward to your thoughts. Ram in Peace my @rse. Wolf in sheep's clothing more like - visiting to try and stir it. We lost seven games. Why not sue other teams? Gibson picking on poor Derby blah, blah. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RiseAgainst 3,793 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, MadAmster said: Hi, Ram in peace. I have a question regarding the ongoing issue between your good selves and DCFC. It seems Mr Gibson is playing the "Derby kept us out of the playoffs through cheating" card. Does he have a point? I would say not. Obviously you might say otherwise. In the end, the EFL got a guilty verdict on appeal on just one of 3 grounds, that a small part of the totally legal amortisation method "might have been explained better". There were 2 accounting experts on the original panel and zero on the appeal committee deciding on an accounting method. Strange at the very least IMO. Let's look at the 18/19 season that it's all about. You get promoted by getting points. You looked dead certs with 13 games to go. You then lost 7 and drew 1 of those games. Certainly some of the reason lies with MFC IMO. Also that season Sheffield Wednesday broke FFP and took 3 points off you. Points which would have seen you finish 6th and in the playoffs. You aren't suing the Owls. Why not, didn't they also "cheat you out of the playoffs"? Why is it that only DCFC are in Mr Gibson's sights? I look forward to your thoughts. Welcome to oneBoro, and well done for raising your head above the parapet in enemy territory! (Though we're a nice bunch on here, apart from one or two weirdoes). Steve Gibson has been pursuing Derby (Mel Morris in particular) for three years about perceived transgressions of EFL rules. The fact DCFC are now in administration and facing an uncertain future doesn't mean he's going to give up on years of (what he believes to be) justifiable legal action. As other posters have mentioned, we sold our crown jewels - including Gibson's own nephew Ben - to stay within FFP limits. We didn't sell our stadium back to ourselves at an inflated price, or sign players we couldn't afford to, or live way beyond our means and then try to dodge what the BBC are reporting as a £29.3 million tax bill by appointing administrators. Any Boro fan who remembers or understands 1986 will appreciate the horror of potential liquidation. More recently, we've expressed great sympathy for Bury's fans. However, there's a large body of evidence that Derby cheated FFP rules, including - as just one example - blowing our bid for Martyn Waghorn out of the water in 2018, after which he went on to score 13 goals for Derby that season. It's hard to argue that those 13 goals didn't help Derby achieve at least one point that season - a point which took you above us. Yes, we'd probably have stunk out the play-offs under Pulis, and yes, some of the blame for not performing better that season falls on our scrotal sac of a manager at the time. But who knows what might have happened if we'd been participating on a level playing field that season, or if we'd signed Waghorn and he'd scored even one goal for us instead of 13 for you? I can only speculate how this situation looks to a self-made local businessman trying to compete in a footballing world of billionaires and tax exiles. Steve Gibson is very private, so his publication of an open letter to the administrators the other day was truly extraordinary. He makes a number of points about unsubstantiated claims apparently leaked to the press by Quantuma, and AFAIK none of his points have been answered yet, which raises further red flags from our perspective. This entire affair feels as if Quantuma are acting in Mel Morris's best interests, rather than in your club's (and by extension the fans') best interests. That's how it looks from our side of the fence, at least. I hope your club survives, but I also hope they're punished for their transgressions. MFC were forced to pay back 100 pence in the pound to creditors back in 1986 after we were locked out of our own ground, but that was before the organisations supposedly in charge of English league football became supine and myopic. It shouldn't be on Steve Gibson to act, or sue, or do any of the things he's doing, but our sport is leaderless and run by people with no desire to enforce their own rules. 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ScarBoro 857 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Not clear how genuine or realistic this offer is, but will be interesting to see whether it brings out the supposed other two parties interested into the open. I assume Quantuma will have to make a statement at some point about the supposed bid - either that they are talking seriously to them or that the bid isn’t being considered/isn’t true etc. I do hope it is at least a true bid and has some realism to it. Imagine Derby reaction if it was all fake. Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,972 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, ScarBoro said: Not clear how genuine or realistic this offer is, but will be interesting to see whether it brings out the supposed other two parties interested into the open. I assume Quantuma will have to make a statement at some point about the supposed bid - either that they are talking seriously to them or that the bid isn’t being considered/isn’t true etc. I do hope it is at least a true bid and has some realism to it. Imagine Derby reaction if it was all fake. I would use their tears as lube and *** myself silly 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,320 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 58 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said: Taken over and relegated, then everybody wins. ...apart from DZ. 😉 Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie-H 1,322 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I am curious how this plays out with regards to their tax bill, the Finance Act 2020 legislation which came into force from April 2021 changed HMRC's status under law from the previous status of an unsecured creditor to a preferential creditor meaning they can take more than the 25% due to unsecured creditors in insolvency and administration scenarios. Absolute scandal if they somehow get off the hook on that tax bill, especially given it was the primary reason the current owner entered them into administration... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Naisby 736 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Jamie-H said: I am curious how this plays out with regards to their tax bill, the Finance Act 2020 legislation which came into force from April 2021 changed HMRC's status under law from the previous status of an unsecured creditor to a preferential creditor meaning they can take more than the 25% due to unsecured creditors in insolvency and administration scenarios. Absolute scandal if they somehow get off the hook on that tax bill, especially given it was the primary reason the current owner entered them into administration... We have gone backwards, in 1986 we were made an example of and were made to pay 100pence in the £ of our debt to the Inland Revenue by the Football League to retain our status and position. That was supposed to create a new precedent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Brunners 7,982 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0013j7t About 1 hour 8 in to this. Rick Parry making it clear that we're not suing Derby, which they keep spouting. Link to post Share on other sites
p_mards 1,365 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 There's a thread on FMTTM discussing us displaying a Mel Morris banner or puppet (of him supposedly having everyone on strings) before our game against Derby on Saturday 12th February. Link to post Share on other sites
notjade 1,174 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, p_mards said: There's a thread on FMTTM discussing us displaying a Mel Morris banner or puppet (of him supposedly having everyone on strings) before our game against Derby on Saturday 12th February. Cringe. Couple of renditions of "One Stevie Gibson" is enough Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,347 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Just be Boro fans and get behind our own team. Mel Morris banners ffs 🤦♂️ 5 Link to post Share on other sites
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