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40 minutes ago, p_mards said:

There's a thread on FMTTM discussing us displaying a Mel Morris banner or puppet (of him supposedly having everyone on strings) before our game against Derby on Saturday 12th February.

They hate him just as much as we do, if not maybe more. The Fit and Proper one of Gibson is the one to do.

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So the millionaires have called a draw in the biggest *** competition and we could get on with the football Enjoyed the day, observations, comforting to see the same fake stone island stall in De

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Absolute scenes when this year's accounts are published and we were set to fail FFP by 3m until Mr Morris stepped in. Think that would turn the entirety of Derbyshire into the world's largest sal

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I just wonder if the best outcome for this whole saga with Derby would be to Put some distance between ourselves and Derby for some time, till everything is sorted.

In my humble and very biased opinion, this would be best solved if between now and the end of the season.

My 3 point plan to achieve this.

1. The EFL forces binding arbitration on us both to solve all disputes so this ends this season.

2. Middlesbrough get promoted so we are no longer in the EFL so we cannot get accused of using the EFL as some sort of Gibson’s personal attack vessel.

3. Derby get relegated and start next season with the Mackems in Division 3. That way if we don’t get promoted we not in the same league.

Relegation for Derby may seem harsh to some, but not to me, it should be an automatic punishment for FFP major infractions. Points and fines are ok for small to mid infractions but you need a big penalty for the major ones as Derby have shown, if you choose your time carefully for going into administration you have the time and windows of opportunity to get past them.

 

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3 hours ago, Naisby said:

I just wonder if the best outcome for this whole saga with Derby would be to Put some distance between ourselves and Derby for some time

Liquidation for Derby will be the best way to put distance between us and them. 

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37 minutes ago, Brunners said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b94deebc-7ad5-11ec-9998-b2483743c25e?shareToken=67dbf7f4530033813339162cd2845a6e

According to The Times, we're looking for less than the Bill the Administrators are likely to produce.

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Pretty fair article in The Times overall. The paragraphs after the above one are:-

No, the issue here is with Morris and the £29 million still owed to Revenue and Customs and millions more to other creditors. Perhaps most significant of all the liabilities is the £20 million loan from MSD Holdings. Morris secured the loan against the Pride Park stadium that he still owns and also provided a personal guarantee for the money. If the administrators cannot raise sufficient funds from a new owner, the US investment group presumably goes after Morris.

As Rooney said yesterday, Morris is the creator of this sporting catastrophe. Derby’s young manager was mightily impressive in his press conference, answering questions with great maturity and composure.

But when he was presented with a list of the key players in this saga and asked to identify who is most to blame, he was blunt in his response. “I’m sure the fans agree with me when I say I’m most unhappy with Mel Morris,” he said. “He is why we are in this situation.”

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41 minutes ago, ScarBoro said:

Pretty fair article in The Times overall. The paragraphs after the above one are:-

No, the issue here is with Morris and the £29 million still owed to Revenue and Customs and millions more to other creditors. Perhaps most significant of all the liabilities is the £20 million loan from MSD Holdings. Morris secured the loan against the Pride Park stadium that he still owns and also provided a personal guarantee for the money. If the administrators cannot raise sufficient funds from a new owner, the US investment group presumably goes after Morris.

As Rooney said yesterday, Morris is the creator of this sporting catastrophe. Derby’s young manager was mightily impressive in his press conference, answering questions with great maturity and composure.

But when he was presented with a list of the key players in this saga and asked to identify who is most to blame, he was blunt in his response. “I’m sure the fans agree with me when I say I’m most unhappy with Mel Morris,” he said. “He is why we are in this situation.”

i'm waiting for the local newspaper to post another Boro/Wycombe/EFL hit piece to make up for Rooney's honesty, and the DCFC forum to start a rumour that it wasn't Rooney who said that, it was in fact Gibson in a mask.

 

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13 minutes ago, Mr_Maz said:

i'm waiting for the local newspaper to post another Boro/Wycombe/EFL hit piece to make up for Rooney's honesty, and the DCFC forum to start a rumour that it wasn't Rooney who said that, it was in fact Gibson in a mask.

 

Yep there he is in his mask

image.thumb.jpeg.630535aec2f42e044f16c237a22fd835.jpeg

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59 minutes ago, ScarBoro said:

Pretty fair article in The Times overall. The paragraphs after the above one are:-

No, the issue here is with Morris and the £29 million still owed to Revenue and Customs and millions more to other creditors. Perhaps most significant of all the liabilities is the £20 million loan from MSD Holdings. Morris secured the loan against the Pride Park stadium that he still owns and also provided a personal guarantee for the money. If the administrators cannot raise sufficient funds from a new owner, the US investment group presumably goes after Morris.

As Rooney said yesterday, Morris is the creator of this sporting catastrophe. Derby’s young manager was mightily impressive in his press conference, answering questions with great maturity and composure.

But when he was presented with a list of the key players in this saga and asked to identify who is most to blame, he was blunt in his response. “I’m sure the fans agree with me when I say I’m most unhappy with Mel Morris,” he said. “He is why we are in this situation.”

Derby fans don't want to hear that to be honest.  They are in full blown victim mode and Morris is no where to be seen other than on the Sand Banks.  Gibson is a visible and easy target for them to vent their frustrations at because 99.99% of them don't understand the rules they broke, what is currently happening, the process of what needs to happen or even what their administration is playing at.  Gibson is the only tangible person they can seem to influence.

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Thanks for the majority of you who replied in the same manner as I posted. Several questions have been asked and I'll have a go at answering.

It's Mel who put us in this position and IMO he should be doing more to get us out of it. As it is he just walked away when the going got tough. His fault yet it's the fans who will be paying the price because it doesn't matter who has the shares, a club IS the fans. We were fed bullshit for years. It's the fans who are suffering, not Mel. I watched today's game at the CG and smiled when the Red Dogs started singing "There's only one Mel Morris". He and the CEO Pearce should be sorting the debt out, not a firm of administrators.

HMRC? IMO it's a debt that should be paid in full. I know that the EFL considers tax debt to be a non-football debt so under their rules we could get away with 25%. However, I thought the government changed the Law a few years back so that tax bills had to be paid in full under UK Law. They did so because Leicester and others had got away with paying little to no tax when going into Admin.

Didn't  Gibson move some of Boro's debt to 2 other companies he owns to avoid problems with the EFL. A move that also meant those 2 firms had smaller profits and thereby paid less tax? 

I'm probably flying back to see next week's home game against Brum. I would not be surprised to see it be our last ever game. Good luck with the claims then.

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Instead of Banners we could just go with a few choruses of:

"Stand up if you've paid your tax, Stand up if you've paid your tax, Stand up if you've paid your tax, Stand up if you've paid your tax!"

Followed by:

"Stand up if you own your ground, Stand up if you own your ground, Stand up if you own your ground, Stand up if you own your ground!"

I'm sure there are a few more lined up and no doubt a few on here can come up with some witty ditty's.

 

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2 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Thanks for the majority of you who replied in the same manner as I posted. Several questions have been asked and I'll have a go at answering.

It's Mel who put us in this position and IMO he should be doing more to get us out of it. As it is he just walked away when the going got tough. His fault yet it's the fans who will be paying the price because it doesn't matter who has the shares, a club IS the fans. We were fed bullshit for years. It's the fans who are suffering, not Mel. I watched today's game at the CG and smiled when the Red Dogs started singing "There's only one Mel Morris". He and the CEO Pearce should be sorting the debt out, not a firm of administrators.

HMRC? IMO it's a debt that should be paid in full. I know that the EFL considers tax debt to be a non-football debt so under their rules we could get away with 25%. However, I thought the government changed the Law a few years back so that tax bills had to be paid in full under UK Law. They did so because Leicester and others had got away with paying little to no tax when going into Admin.

Didn't  Gibson move some of Boro's debt to 2 other companies he owns to avoid problems with the EFL. A move that also meant those 2 firms had smaller profits and thereby paid less tax? 

I'm probably flying back to see next week's home game against Brum. I would not be surprised to see it be our last ever game. Good luck with the claims then.

The tax rules got changed in 2020, to make the inland revenue get better status when dealing with all administrations, ( not sure but that could account for why that side of the problems taking longer than it used to, Wigan had to rapidly sell a player when they were in administration cos hmrc decided to push things.

 

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