Derby County.

[TeaCider24 12,646]

It's happened again...

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,972]

15 hours ago, Tarmo Kink Army said:

I swear bury weren’t given this amount of time, more extensions to come and nothing will happen 

The EFL want them to finish the season, they really don't want to deal with the issue of removing points from teams that beat Derby if they expel them from the league.

Still think they'll get a buyer, but they'll start next season in League One on -15.

[Redcar Rioja 5,979]

Just been looking at the DCFC Newsnow site and it's not looking good for their survival. On a very simplistic level it appears that they now owe far more than the Club is worth to any prospective investor and that's before you throw in that the cost of the Stadium is in addition.

Can't see anyone paying £83m for Pride Park which questions "that" valuation even more. Apparently MM has a £20M loan on it which I'm guessing is the minimum he would be prepared to accept. The more it goes on the more it looks like to me anyway that MM would be the only person likely to put an offer in which in itself which begs a lot more questions.

I don't know what the cost would be to build a new Stadium but I would hazard a guess it would be less than £83m. It may be tempting for a buyer to groundshare somewhere for a few seasons while they plan for a new build.

[Brunners 7,982]

9 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Just been looking at the DCFC Newsnow site and it's not looking good for their survival. On a very simplistic level it appears that they now owe far more than the Club is worth to any prospective investor and that's before you throw in that the cost of the Stadium is in addition.

Can't see anyone paying £83m for Pride Park which questions "that" valuation even more. Apparently MM has a £20M loan on it which I'm guessing is the minimum he would be prepared to accept. The more it goes on the more it looks like to me anyway that MM would be the only person likely to put an offer in which in itself which begs a lot more questions.

I don't know what the cost would be to build a new Stadium but I would hazard a guess it would be less than £83m. It may be tempting for a buyer to groundshare somewhere for a few seasons while they plan for a new build.

MM has been willing to accept the £20m to cover the loan for the stadium the entire time I think. The problem is that even without the stadium this is the most expensive football administration of all time, the club is barely worth the £30m~ they have in debt, let alone with the minimum £20m on top.

No buyers are willing to put in anywhere near what admin needs to avoid the -15 next season.

[Borodane 6,301]

How is admin so expensive? Is it because it includes all the costs that the club have accrued since they were appointed ie interests on loans etc? Surely it’s not just the fee to cover the wages of the administrators?

[TeaCider24 12,646]

Just take the hit and get the takeover sorted.

They'll bounce back up from League Two in short order if they can't survive the -15 in League One.

[Brunners 7,982]

7 minutes ago, Borodane said:

How is admin so expensive? Is it because it includes all the costs that the club have accrued since they were appointed ie interests on loans etc? Surely it’s not just the fee to cover the wages of the administrators?

It's been the most difficult, expensive admin before even factoring in that stuff. Based solely on the debt the club had when it went into admin. It's one of the reasons a smaller company like Quantuma ended up with the job. Rumours are none of the bigger admin firms would touch Derby with a ten foot pole because of the amount of debt involved.

7 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Just take the hit and get the takeover sorted.

They'll bounce back up from League Two in short order if they can't survive the -15 in League One.

Don't forget they'll have minimum 2 years under a strict business plan, so while I know Wigan and Bolton both bounced back into league 1 pretty quickly, I'm not so sure about Derby!

[ScarBoro 857]

31 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

 

Can't see anyone paying £83m for Pride Park which questions "that" valuation even more.

I don't know what the cost would be to build a new Stadium but I would hazard a guess it would be less than £83m..

The EFL eventually questioned the valuation - maybe due to Gibsons pressure - which is why Derby were charged. EFL got an “expert witness” who valued it at £50m odd. The disciplinary commission accepted the £83m as a fair cost of rebuilding though, based on what Derbys expert witness said it would cost to rebuild. The commission tore the EFLs expert witness apart and said he was talking rubbish basically. Both sides agreed the cost of rebuilding was a fair way of valuing it irrespective of whether anybody other than Morris would actually pay that much. So seems “market value” had a specific meaning here and not what most of us would assume. 
That’s one reason Derby fans hate Gibson. The commission actually found the stadium value acceptable

[Borodane 6,301]

13 minutes ago, Brunners said:

It's been the most difficult, expensive admin before even factoring in that stuff. Based solely on the debt the club had when it went into admin. It's one of the reasons a smaller company like Quantuma ended up with the job. Rumours are none of the bigger admin firms would touch Derby with a ten foot pole because of the amount of debt involved.

It still doesn't explain how Administration can cost them an extra 20 million (if that's what you were saying earlier). Are Quantuma expected to be paid 20 million? I take it the bigger firms didn't want it because of the risk of not getting paid if Derby folds?

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,972]

Just now, Borodane said:

It still doesn't explain how Administration can cost them an extra 20 million (if that's what you were saying earlier). Are Quantuma expected to be paid 20 million? I take it the bigger firms didn't want it because of the risk of not getting paid if Derby folds?

They get paid regardless

[Brunners 7,982]

15 minutes ago, Borodane said:

It still doesn't explain how Administration can cost them an extra 20 million (if that's what you were saying earlier). Are Quantuma expected to be paid 20 million? I take it the bigger firms didn't want it because of the risk of not getting paid if Derby folds?

So the Extra 20m is the stadium. Derby County have debts of £30m just on the club, but anyone wanting to buy the club has to stump up another 20m on top of that to buy the ground, making it unviable financially for most people.

Admin get paid anyway, they're guaranteed creditors essentially, whatever happens they walk away with money. I believe Derby have been taking out further loans with MSD while in Admin though, so there's at least the 5m from that loan added in debt.

[Borodane 6,301]

16 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

They get paid regardless

Then I'm more at loss as to why a bigger firm didn't want the job. Sounds like a very profitable job with guaranteed payment.

[Borodane 6,301]

Just now, Brunners said:

So the Extra 20m is the stadium. Derby County have debts of £30m just on the club, but anyone wanting to buy the club has to stump up another 20m on top of that to buy the ground, making it unviable financially for most people.

Admin get paid anyway, they're guaranteed creditors essentially, whatever happens they walk away with money. I believe Derby have been taking out further loans with MSD while in Admin though, so there's at least the 5m from that loan added in debt.

Ahhh OK. I thought the 20 million was the bill to the admins.

[Brunners 7,982]

3 minutes ago, Borodane said:

Ahhh OK. I thought the 20 million was the bill to the admins.

They will make millions off this admin, don't get that wrong. Just not quite that much I don't think 🙂

[estonpidge 1,449]

The stories I've heard are that reputable firms didn't like the involvement the former board/owner wanted in the administration process. But that could be just hearsay.