Boro vs Coventry 1-0 (Sporar)

[Denzel Zanzibar 3,653]

13 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Just stick him on your ignore list like the rest of us DS.

[p_mards 901]

It’s noticeable how, to some fans anyway, Watmore seems to have suddenly became a twice the player he was just a few games ago before Connolly took his place. Now Connolly is the boo boy and Watmore is supposedly the answer to our problems. It’s like the Nicky Bailey curse of the less he plays, the better he gets. I’ll trust Wilder’s faith in Connolly as once he gets up to 100%, I’m sure he’ll be by far more effective than Watmore.

[Neverbefore 4,197]

6 minutes ago, p_mards said:

It’s noticeable how, to some fans anyway, Watmore seems to have suddenly became a twice the player he was just a few games ago before Connolly took his place. Now Connolly is the boo boy and Watmore is supposedly the answer to our problems. It’s like the Nicky Bailey curse of the less he plays, the better he gets. I’ll trust Wilder’s faith in Connolly as once he gets up to 100%, I’m sure he’ll be by far more effective than Watmore.

Good to see some perspective on here. Though I would still rest him for the utd game and see how balogan can get on from the start. Watmore is okay as an option but he's not a starter in a top 6 side of the championship, whereas I think the other two have the potential to be at least. 

[Redcar Rioja 2,666]

Just now, p_mards said:

It’s noticeable how, to some fans anyway, Watmore seems to have suddenly became a twice the player he was just a few games ago before Connolly took his place. Now Connolly is the boo boy and Watmore is supposedly the answer to our problems. It’s like the Nicky Bailey curse of the less he plays, the better he gets. I’ll trust Wilder’s faith in Connolly as once he gets up to 100%, I’m sure he’ll be by far more effective than Watmore.

Nobody is suggesting that Watmore is anything more than he is. He has fitness issues and seems to struggle to put in more than 60 minutes which is a shame but probably the reason that he is at Boro and not in the Premiership. In fact he is lucky to be playing professional football at all. Ironically your defence of Connolly is disparaging and uncalled for in the case of Watmore and guilty of the exact same thing you are accusing others of.

It is a very simple conundrum, does/did Watmore look more effective and a better pairing for Sporar and the answer for some of us is yes. Time will tell if Connolly gets near to Watmore's effectiveness or indeed surpasses it. Personally I think we need better than both of them but while we wait for Connolly it is costing us. I'd perhaps suggest you ask a few Blades fans (who incidentally adore Wilder) what they think about his Striker recruitments before putting all your faith in him, like the rest of us he is human and doesn't always get everything right.

[TeaCider24 5,229]

Hoping Watmore starts on Friday.

He started his career at Manchester United, is from Greater Manchester, but has never played for or against them.

I'm sure it would be a huge match for him.

I also think both Sporar and Connolly were poor yesterday, so he deserves a chance.

[pikerman 434]

14 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

There seems to be a lot of foam fumes and tinted glasses on here recoiling in horror at someone stating the bleeding obvious. Wilder has performed a minor miracle since he arrived with a far better and attacking style of football that is entertaining with it. But! and its a big but! Things have gone awry in January for whatever reason. His style of football was imposed and effective very quickly, the players adapted to his instructions and we all regaled in it joyfully after many years of Pulis, Woodgate and Warnock. The results and form table were the icing on the cake, none of that is in any doubt or being disparaged, but recently it's all gone a bit wonky to put it in simple parlance.

Whether as has been suggested that it is the transfer window or new players settling in is a fair point but the basic foundation to Wilder is his style of play and it has got lost somewhere in January. Instead of Paddy and Dijksteel pushing up and Watmore and Sporar running around like demented Jack Russell's, closing down, snarling at nervy panicking defenders we now seem to have abandoned all that to get it up to the big lad. The big lad in question being Crooks. The last four games are indistinguishable from Warnock and very un-Wilder. Wilders comments after Blackburn indicated that he himself was less than pleased and felt his standards were not being adhered to. To address that he picked exactly the same team and got exactly the same results until his Substitutions. 

He clearly rates Connolly and after bringing him in I get that to drop him would be an admission of sorts. However having brought him in Wilders tactics are not playing to his strengths (I personally have concerns about those anyway but putting those aside) while bizarrely the terrier like pairing of Watmore and Sporar have been immediately dumped. If Wilder cannot get the quality and type of supply to his front pairing (Payero possibly) then why hasn't he changed his midfield or why did he changed his Strike pairing? 

Further to that why are we now lumping balls upfield when that was the exact thing he has worked so hard to eradicate? Indeed why jettison Ikpeazu for a comparatively diminutive Connolly just when we have seemingly resorted to hoof ball tactics which suits the former and is the exact opposite requirement for the latter?

Maybe it's because all the fuss around Spence has made opposition Managers look more deeply into Jones figuring that if Spence can't get into Boro's side then who is keeping him out? No doubt our right hand side has received more attention and that has limited our main creative threat to a degree but nothing has been done to address that other than seemingly hoof it up to Crooks. Whether I or others rate Connolly is irrelevant at this point because that style of play isn't going to benefit Connolly or Sporar and even the most rose tinted, ardent foam inhaler has to see that. 

One game fair enough, maybe even two at a stretch but it's becoming a recurrent theme. I'm sure Wilder sees it and recognises it, if he doesn't then the honeymoon will be over before it even got started. Keeping the faith is fine for some but others are a little more circumspect and evidentially rather than emotionally driven. It doesn't make them miserable, dour or moaning it just makes them genuinely concerned. Snatching a victory in the dying seconds is euphoric but relying on it as a component of the sides tactics isn't likely to yield long term success.

One thing Boro fans are experts at is in identifying balls aimed at the big lad which at the moment seems to be our current default. To question why we are bringing in players that are the exact opposite to that while trying to get other players out the door that are more suited to that tactic is not unreasonable. To also raise concerns that we don't wish to revisit that style of football is more than reasonable. It's easier to fix something when it is cracked rather than wait until it is smashed.

Good post RR, my current thoughts exactly. I watched the style of play develop through the Bournemouth, Forest games and thought this is more like it, sustainable tactics that can take the team forward, but since then we have hit a brick wall. Other teams have countered our tactics, but that is to be expected, but even so that shouldn’t mean we just throw the tactic book away and resort to hoof ball and scrapping it out. I guess the question is have we reverted to Warnock style as a pre determined plan or are our players just not capable of adapting to Wilders new style 

[wilsoncgp 6,168]

I think anybody remotely concerned with what Wilder is doing based on a couple of games needs to give their head a shake. Christ alive. Man's been here 12 games if you include the cup and has us earning over 2 points a game. We've won 5 home games on the trot despite some decent opposition mixed in there. He said it himself after the game, he'd like to play like we did against Forest every week but that doesn't happen in football.

We've been crying out for Fortress Riverside to return. Right now, that's what we have when the man has no right to have achieved what he has so far during his tenure.

[Neverbefore 4,197]

10 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I think anybody remotely concerned with what Wilder is doing based on a couple of games needs to give their head a shake. Christ alive. Man's been here 12 games if you include the cup and has us earning over 2 points a game. We've won 5 home games on the trot despite some decent opposition mixed in there. He said it himself after the game, he'd like to play like we did against Forest every week but that doesn't happen in football.

We've been crying out for Fortress Riverside to return. Right now, that's what we have when the man has no right to have achieved what he has so far during his tenure.

Agreed, and just to add to this, wilder was furious after Blackburn. He made subs in the 56th minute yesterday, so clearly wasn't happy then either. This isn't how he wants us to play, but he's still working with someone else's squad so to be whinging at this stage would sort of only indicate one thing - you're a massive whinger. 

[Smokedsalmon 657]

He's coaching a team of players who's past 4 managers are Garry Monk, Tony Pulis, Jonathan Woodgate and Neil Warnock. Not one of those 4 has done any technical work with them. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic here, either, it's obvious from the way that they receive the ball, the way they struggle to carry the ball, the weight of the passes.

The only valid criticism of Wilder so far is his substitutions (apart from the last game, where he finally got them spot on) and maybe sticking with Connolly who has had a rough start. Otherwise, he is genuinely the biggest breath of fresh air since Karanka (the last manager we had who did any actual coaching).

[sanddancer 1,454]

Some interesting posts on what we can all agree was a poor quality game. A game were they blew it and we gained three points. It happens. 
We have lost that snappy energy but there are factors that dictate the style of play, opposition and yesterday the weather. We also have new players. I think we have to accept no two games are going to look the same and it’s more about points and not dropping them . 

[p_mards 901]

35 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Nobody is suggesting that Watmore is anything more than he is. He has fitness issues and seems to struggle to put in more than 60 minutes which is a shame but probably the reason that he is at Boro and not in the Premiership. In fact he is lucky to be playing professional football at all. Ironically your defence of Connolly is disparaging and uncalled for in the case of Watmore and guilty of the exact same thing you are accusing others of.

It is a very simple conundrum, does/did Watmore look more effective and a better pairing for Sporar and the answer for some of us is yes. Time will tell if Connolly gets near to Watmore's effectiveness or indeed surpasses it. Personally I think we need better than both of them but while we wait for Connolly it is costing us. I'd perhaps suggest you ask a few Blades fans (who incidentally adore Wilder) what they think about his Striker recruitments before putting all your faith in him, like the rest of us he is human and doesn't always get everything right.

It wasn't disparaging of Watmore. It was taking into account that we've seen Watmore play consistently for 14/15 months so we know what he's all about. He's a decent level Championship footballer but not good enough to be a starter in a promotion chasing side as he just doesn't enough goals. I really like him as a person and think he has a huge part to play here, albeit predominantly off the bench in a Maccarone type super sub role. Against Reading his pressing forced a defensive mistake which won us a corner in the build up to Crook's equaliser, so he's still got a lot to offer us. Whilst I appreciate him, I just don't think he's got the quality we need to start for us in a promotion campaign. I've said previously that our 4 striking options (plus Coburn as 5th choice) is incredibly strong in the Championship.

My main point was that it's interesting how fans prejudgments impact their attitudes towards players. Connolly came here with question marks over him after a bad spell at Brighton, whereas Payero came here with great excitement; and you can see the widely differing levels of support in their respective performances yesterday. Payero is lauded and Connolly criticised, even with quite a few loud boos and groans.

Both are adapting and deserve the same level of support. A huge part of being a striker is confidence so the fans turning on Connolly (or any striker) after three games wont help him or us. I know football fans love to be proven right and calling things early, but aside from that, there's nothing to gain from pilling onto Connolly. Wilder has performed miracles here, and has us way ahead of schedule, so I'll trust his opinion regarding Connolly.

[boro-unger 2,379]

24 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I think anybody remotely concerned with what Wilder is doing based on a couple of games needs to give their head a shake. Christ alive. Man's been here 12 games if you include the cup and has us earning over 2 points a game. We've won 5 home games on the trot despite some decent opposition mixed in there. He said it himself after the game, he'd like to play like we did against Forest every week but that doesn't happen in football.

We've been crying out for Fortress Riverside to return. Right now, that's what we have when the man has no right to have achieved what he has so far during his tenure.

Now we've got the fortress, we've decided we don't like the wallpaper... 😄

 

 

[Naisby 696]

Too many choices and too much tinkering in everything nowadays, I blame Football Manager for that, a generation of folk who think you have to spend ages changing formations, editing players hairstyles, changing boot manufacturers for every player.

Then you kick off and no sooner have you started when the game paused while more pointless minute changes are made.

This has pervaded football to the extent that if folks don’t tinker, change, swap, substitute, sell. Change kits every tick and turn that they doing something wrong.

A manager with his whole squad available will know his best team and favoured formation and style, only the opposition and the usual hinderances like injuries and suspensions should really make them alter things drastically. 

[Mr_Maz 1,412]

IMO the reason we've not been as good lately is as much down to the opposition as it is us.

The opposition have adjusted to Wilders changes and are doing a good job stopping us playing through and around them in the manner we did in Nov-Dec.  Now it's about the players kicking on again and making the adjustments to work around the opposition.

 

[Redcar Rioja 2,666]

8 minutes ago, p_mards said:

It wasn't disparaging of Watmore. It was taking into account that we've seen Watmore play consistently for 14/15 months so we know what he's all about. He's a decent level Championship footballer but not good enough to be a starter in a promotion chasing side as he just doesn't enough goals. I really like him as a person and think he has a huge part to play here, albeit predominantly off the bench in a Maccarone type super sub role. Against Reading his pressing forced a defensive mistake which won us a corner in the build up to Crook's equaliser, so he's still got a lot to offer us. Whilst I appreciate him, I just don't think he's got the quality we need to start for us in a promotion campaign. I've said previously that our 4 striking options (plus Coburn as 5th choice) is incredibly strong in the Championship.

My main point was that it's interesting how fans prejudgments impact their attitudes towards players. Connolly came here with question marks over him after a bad spell at Brighton, whereas Payero came here with great excitement; and you can see the widely differing levels of support in their respective performances yesterday. Payero is lauded and Connolly criticised, even with quite a few loud boos and groans.

Both are adapting and deserve the same level of support. A huge part of being a striker is confidence so the fans turning on Connolly (or any striker) after three games wont help him or us. I know football fans love to be proven right and calling things early, but aside from that, there's nothing to gain from pilling onto Connolly. Wilder has performed miracles here, and has us way ahead of schedule, so I'll trust his opinion regarding Connolly.

By and large I don't think anyone disagrees with that even the Connolly bashers.