Boro vs Coventry 1-0 (Sporar)

[Changing Times 12,347]

4 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

The game yesterday ... Coventry forced us to play the long ball more than we would like to do it ..  
We will never NOT play any long balls, as a team needs to spice it up from time to time .. So a few long balls will be there in every game, but yes, Coventry forced us to use that road more than we would like .. 

But .. The plan was not to find a high tower target man .. It was to re-nick the ball in their territory ... Something Tav and Crooks do very well ..  Manchester City are masters of that .. nicking the ball in enemy territory and create chances imedialtely

So what Warnock wanted us to do then?  He was always going on about winning the second balls and that.  Thank God he's gone though.

You know, it's ok to say that we didn't play well, and that we played pretty much exactly as we did under Warnock.  It doesn't make people disloyal, it also doesn't make them whingers, it just happens to be the truth, possibly not a very palatable truth for some people who spent a lot of recent time slagging Warnock off, but it's still the truth.

[SmogDane 4,056]

14 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

So what Warnock wanted us to do then?  He was always going on about winning the second balls and that.  Thank God he's gone though.

You know, it's ok to say that we didn't play well, and that we played pretty much exactly as we did under Warnock.  It doesn't make people disloyal, it also doesn't make them whingers, it just happens to be the truth, possibly not a very palatable truth for some people who spent a lot of recent time slagging Warnock off, but it's still the truth.

What you miss here is .. We were FORCED to play that way .. We wouldn't have been doing it against weaker opposition .. And still you could NEVER claim that yesterday was a NW'esque performance without sounding like a bafoon ..  

A lot of very good teams would be forced to play that many long balls v Coventry  ... So ofc that would be natural for us to do it as well .. 

You can't have another plan B if you are inches from losing the ball in dangerous areas .. 

And as I also try to get you to understand ..  There will always be long balls in a game .. Thats important to spice it up, to give their defenders a hard time .. 

The same goes with shooting from the distance .. (which we btw never do anymore) .. You need those long range shots to leave their defenders in doubt .. 

 

[Changing Times 12,347]

24 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

What you miss here is .. We were FORCED to play that way .. We wouldn't have been doing it against weaker opposition .. And still you could NEVER claim that yesterday was a NW'esque performance without sounding like a bafoon ..  

Ahh, we were forced into it.  So what happens from now on if every team forces us to play that way?  Do we just give up on the idea of playing football or do we find a way to adapt?  I am claiming that yesterday was a Warnock like performance, it was exactly like one in fact, both on the field and statistically.  That would make me a buffoon rather than a bafoon however.  Thick, buffoon and a massive whinger, all in one day.  Well done mods, right on top of things as always 😉

 

40 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

A lot of very good teams would be forced to play that many long balls v Coventry  ... So ofc that would be natural for us to do it as well .. 

You can't have another plan B if you are inches from losing the ball in dangerous areas .. 

Nope.  I checked back through their last 15 games or so.  Only two teams had a higher percentage of long balls, West Brom and Birmingham, who are just about the most direct teams in the league.  Even Millwall and Hull had a lower percentage than we did apparently.  I would say that plan B's are always needed, but getting better at plan A would be the first step, and you won't get better at it by not even bothering with it.

 

47 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

And as I also try to get you to understand ..  There will always be long balls in a game .. Thats important to spice it up, to give their defenders a hard time .. 

The same goes with shooting from the distance .. (which we btw never do anymore) .. You need those long range shots to leave their defenders in doubt .. 

Did we give their defenders a hard time yesterday with our long balls?  I don't think we did to be honest.  I don't think it bothered them one bit.  That's one of those things that sounds right but then when you look at the game you realise that it didn't work that way at all.  As there are always long balls in a game then why were people so annoyed with us doing it a lot few months ago?   Yesterday's game was a trademark Warnock.  We had a low amount of possession (36.9%), we had a relatively low amount of shots (9), and we had a low passing accuracy (66%), and our long balls were above 20%.  That's basically a standard game for us under Warnock.  Even if I couldn't see it in the stats, it was absolutely bloody obvious from sitting there watching the game.  But whatever you do please don't anyone actually point it out 😬

[Changing Times 12,347]

3 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

Do you have a youtube account? I would love to see what else you can debunk, twisting and turning things to fit your chosen view 😉 

What ever suits your argument, Mr. Thick Whinging Buffoon ❤️

You mean using facts to point out when people are making things up?  Perish the thought.

[SmogDane 4,056]

23 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Ahh, we were forced into it.  So what happens from now on if every team forces us to play that way?  Do we just give up on the idea of playing football or do we find a way to adapt?  I am claiming that yesterday was a Warnock like performance, it was exactly like one in fact, both on the field and statistically.  That would make me a buffoon rather than a bafoon however.  Thick, buffoon and a massive whinger, all in one day.  Well done mods, right on top of things as always 😉

 

 

Nope.  I checked back through their last 15 games or so.  Only two teams had a higher percentage of long balls, West Brom and Birmingham, who are just about the most direct teams in the league.  Even Millwall and Hull had a lower percentage than we did apparently.  I would say that plan B's are always needed, but getting better at plan A would be the first step, and you won't get better at it by not even bothering with it.

 

Did we give their defenders a hard time yesterday with our long balls?  I don't think we did to be honest.  I don't think it bothered them one bit.  That's one of those things that sounds right but then when you look at the game you realise that it didn't work that way at all.  As there are always long balls in a game then why were people so annoyed with us doing it a lot few months ago?   Yesterday's game was a trademark Warnock.  We had a low amount of possession (36.9%), we had a relatively low amount of shots (9), and we had a low passing accuracy (66%), and our long balls were above 20%.  That's basically a standard game for us under Warnock.  Even if I couldn't see it in the stats, it was absolutely bloody obvious from sitting there watching the game.  But whatever you do please don't anyone actually point it out 😬

But not many other teams have the skills to force us to do that .. 

And please stop crying about your Mod issues, it's getting a bit daft and sought 

So you checked back .. and only two teams higher .. ... But how many teams had similar or just below the same amount as us? Statistics can be bend to suit what ever you seek .. 

You saw a NW performance .. I saw something completely different ..  With NW at the helm we would have lost 4-0 yesterday with 2 finishes, both off target .. 




 

[Changing Times 12,347]

47 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

But not many other teams have the skills to force us to do that .. 

And please stop crying about your Mod issues, it's getting a bit daft and sought 

So you checked back .. and only two teams higher .. ... But how many teams had similar or just below the same amount as us? Statistics can be bend to suit what ever you seek .. 

You saw a NW performance .. I saw something completely different ..  With NW at the helm we would have lost 4-0 yesterday with 2 finishes, both off target .. 




 

So really it's just about Coventry being really good then?  Not necessarily against everyone else but just really good against us yesterday?  Nothing wrong with that viewpoint certainly, and you could be right.  I think the weight of evidence suggests otherwise but it's a worthwhile way of looking at it.

The mod mention was a joke mate.  

Yes I checked back and two teams were higher.  Many of them were substantially lower I think.  Why don't you go through them all and put the figures up yourself, then you can decide if I'm manipulating them or not.  

Yes I saw a Warnock performance, so did everyone else.  It's just whether you are prepared to actually say it or not.  No idea why we'd have lost 4-0 yesterday if Warnock was in charge.  We beat them 2-0 at home last season.  We didn't lose a single game under Warnock by four goals, and the last time we lost 4-0 was November 2019.  I didn't even need a Youtube account to debunk that 🙂

If you look at the Coventry away game this season, the stats are fairly similar to yesterday as it goes.  That was the infamous people not eating their breakfasts game.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Changing Times

[Brunners 7,982]

16 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

So really it's just about Coventry being really good then?  Not necessarily against everyone else but just really good against us yesterday?  Nothing wrong with that viewpoint certainly, and you could be right.  I think the weight of evidence suggests otherwise but it's a worthwhile way of looking at it.

The mod mention was a joke mate.  

Yes I checked back and two teams were higher.  Many of them were substantially lower I think.  Why don't you go through them all and put the figures up yourself, then you can decide if I'm manipulating them or not.  

Yes I saw a Warnock performance, so did everyone else.  It's just whether you are prepared to actually say it or not.  No idea why we'd have lost 4-0 yesterday if Warnock was in charge.  We beat them 2-0 last season at home last season.  We didn't lose a single game under Warnock by four goals, and the last time we lost 4-0 was November 2019.  I didn't even need a Youtube account to debunk that 🙂

If you look at the Coventry away game this season, the stats are fairly similar to yesterday as it goes.  That was the infamous people not eating their breakfasts game.

I mean, they probably are comfortably one of the best two or three sides I've seen play this year & Wilder has said as much publicly. They are really, really good.

As for the long balls, I do think they dropped a little in the 2nd half when we were against the wind, so my current theory is that we were trying to utilise the wind to try and get in behind them. No real evidence of it, just my gut feeling. We still looked infinitely better than vs Blackburn where we were truly abject. 

If the long balls continue into the Man Utd game & Derby game, then I'll start to be a bit more concerned about what's going on.

Plus I think we always tend to suck in January, don't we?

[SmogDane 4,056]

23 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

So really it's just about Coventry being really good then?  Not necessarily against everyone else but just really good against us yesterday?  Nothing wrong with that viewpoint certainly, and you could be right.  I think the weight of evidence suggests otherwise but it's a worthwhile way of looking at it.

The mod mention was a joke mate.  

Yes I checked back and two teams were higher.  Many of them were substantially lower I think.  Why don't you go through them all and put the figures up yourself, then you can decide if I'm manipulating them or not.  

Yes I saw a Warnock performance, so did everyone else.  It's just whether you are prepared to actually say it or not.  No idea why we'd have lost 4-0 yesterday if Warnock was in charge.  We beat them 2-0 last season at home last season.  We didn't lose a single game under Warnock by four goals, and the last time we lost 4-0 was November 2019.  I didn't even need a Youtube account to debunk that 🙂

Yes.. they were really good and well prepared .. They wouldn't let us play plan A .. And they made our plan B be more long balls than we'd have liked .. It's not easy to have another plan B when you are inches away from being bullied off the ball ..  They were stronger in the middle of the park than we were .. And Gyokeres was a terrier both with and without the ball ... So long balls were at times "best" of the bad options .. 

I know it was a joke .. And you know, I know .. And you know I'm always tong in cheek or Cheech and Chong .. Maybe thong in between cheecks if you get a wedgie .. 

Calling it a NW performance is a bit over the top, even for you, mate ... Coventry came with full power and we adapted the best way we could .. CW has been here for too few games to drill every goddamn option in to these players ... But I bet him and Knill take notes and will work with this (and many other things) 

Speaking of statistics, I checked back the last 10 games for Coventry and only Stoke, Derby and Bounemouth had slightly more possession ..  WBA, Huddersfield and QPR, which are arguably all top six candidates had similar stats like we had yesterday v Coventry. 

On top of that only WBA and Bournemouth had slightly better shot statistics than we had  v Coventry .. including teams like QPR, Stoke, Huddersfield and Millwall .. An no team had better shot statistics than coventry .. 


 

[Changing Times 12,347]

I like Coventry to be clear, and I'm not suggesting we should have rolled them over.  My point is that what we saw yesterday was very much what we were doing 3 months ago under the last guy, and I don't want to see that.  Neither does anyone else as far as I can tell so I'm not completely sure what the problem is by saying it.  If yesterday's game is a one off then there is no issue.  If it's not then I'd say that we aren't trying to develop the side in the way that we should be.  I have a couple of questions in my mind about the way that we are doing things at the moment.  Just a couple but they are there, and I'll be watching to see how we answer those, which again seems fair enough to me.

[Brunners 7,982]

1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

I like Coventry to be clear, and I'm not suggesting we should have rolled them over.  My point is that what we saw yesterday was very much what we were doing 3 months ago under the last guy, and I don't want to see that.  Neither does anyone else as far as I can tell so I'm not completely sure what the problem is by saying it.  If yesterday's game is a one off then there is no issue.  If it's not then I'd say that we aren't trying to develop the side in the way that we should be.  I have a couple of questions in my mind about the way that we are doing things at the moment.  Just a couple but they are there, and I'll be watching to see how we answer those, which again seems fair enough to me.

Yep think this is a good way of thinking about it.

I'm willing to let him get out of the January window and see what happens, cause there's always the chance it's Jan messing with us.

[SmogDane 4,056]

10 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I like Coventry to be clear, and I'm not suggesting we should have rolled them over.  My point is that what we saw yesterday was very much what we were doing 3 months ago under the last guy, and I don't want to see that.  Neither does anyone else as far as I can tell so I'm not completely sure what the problem is by saying it.  If yesterday's game is a one off then there is no issue.  If it's not then I'd say that we aren't trying to develop the side in the way that we should be.  I have a couple of questions in my mind about the way that we are doing things at the moment.  Just a couple but they are there, and I'll be watching to see how we answer those, which again seems fair enough to me.

Yes yes, I see where you come from .. 

I wouldn't judge anything from the last two games other than we won yesterday and nearly got something at Ewood park .. 

Ask yourself this .. No matter WHO we had at the helm .. Would you be satisfied? Wouldn't you always look for flaws/questions you would want the said manager to answer? 

I have full trust in CW and his team .. And I think the results we have had speak for them selves .. Better than 2 points per game and we have played Bournemouth, Coventry, Blackburn, Stoke, Nottingham Forest and Swansea to name a few teams .. 

We got around zero points v top half teams with NW at the helm .. So we are not even close to NW performances ..  As you said .. this might be one of a few games, where will be forced to play more long balls than we'd like to!

[Changing Times 12,347]

6 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Yep think this is a good way of thinking about it.

I'm willing to let him get out of the January window and see what happens, cause there's always the chance it's Jan messing with us.

As much as anything else I just don't want us to take a backward step while trying to change how we play.  I think in the long run we'll benefit more by sticking with it, and getting good at it, even if we lose more in the short run as a result, which we may or may not do.

[Dynamo Kev 1,558]

might be worth pointing out we are probably being forced to play long because we have midget forwards. stick uche on and see teams let us play from the back instead. lol

[Tom 2,492]

3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

12 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Yep think this is a good way of thinking about it.

I'm willing to let him get out of the January window and see what happens, cause there's always the chance it's Jan messing with us.

As much as anything else I just don't want us to take a backward step while trying to change how we play.  I think in the long run we'll benefit more by sticking with it, and getting good at it, even if we lose more in the short run as a result, which we may or may not do.

I think the club are in a funny situation this season. Wilder was probably told that there was no pressure to do get into the playoffs this season, but a better start than most would have predicted combined with the general quality of the division this season being pretty poor, means that we are now in with a very realistic chance of making the top 6, and an outside shot at the top 2. So there probably is a split mindset between your way of thinking - allow the manager to implement his style over the next few months, as Karanka did the season he came in, and also thinking let's just try to make the Top 6 by hook or by crook. 

 

[TeaCider24 12,642]

15 minutes ago, Dynamo Kev said:

might be worth pointing out we are probably being forced to play long because we have midget forwards. stick uche on and see teams let us play from the back instead. lol

Jesus, let it go.

Nobody is going to take your opinion on Connolly seriously when you've been calling for his head from before he kicked a ball for us.

Sporar is 6ft 1", and he's played worse than Connolly recently.