FA Cup Quarter Final Draw ( Chelsea H) and comments

[AnglianRed 6,320]

17 hours ago, Changing Times said:

Destabilising Ukraine by owning a Steel company?  I think they are saying that Russia purchased Steel from them, and that some of that may have been used to make tanks.  I would say that's a significant stretch if that's what they are on about:

The company had potentially been involved in “supplying steel to the Russian military which may have been used in the production of tanks”, the government added.

Do you think that we haven't supplied Russia with things they are using in this invasion?  I'm bloody sure that we've contributed financially to it.

 

I'm pretty sure it stretches to a LOT more than that.

Remember Abramovich has been close friends with Putin for decades. He made his fortune back in the 90s, when all the nationalised industries were put up for sale in a frenzy of capitalism.

Since Putin came to power, he's basically controlled the oligarchs and other major players by promising they would end up like Alexander Litvinenko, if they didn't play ball and do as he said. 

Whether voluntarily or otherwise, Abramovich's assets and wealth will have been of significant use to Putin over the years.

Agree though that successive governments have turned a blind eye to all the Russian money sloshing around in London and should have acted far sooner. Doesn't look great that it took a war before the current incumbents finally took action.

Chelsea's current issues are just an unfortunate side effect of the sanctions. They're being treated like any other business.

For what its worth I do feel sympathy for everyone connected with the club, as I doubt anyone could have foreseen 20 years ago that Putin would suddenly try to create a new Soviet Union. Though alarm bells should have started ringing back in 2014 when he annexed Crimea.

 

[Downsouth 6,326]

6 hours ago, RiseAgainst said:

If Chelsea turn up with 650 fans, would it be unkind to sing "your support is effing s**t" at them?

Reading it all again the FA Cup is stand alone from away season tickets so there should not be any Chelsea fans unless Boro allow pay at the gate 

[Changing Times 12,339]

7 hours ago, sanddancer said:

Tricky one. The club can’t be sold it can’t receive income therefore I believe it will have to be gifted?  

The government will allow a sale to go through just as long as Abramovich doesn't benefit from it.  They will want the club off their hands as quickly as possible, and that only happens when someone else owns it.

[Blanco 4,916]

12 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

The government will allow a sale to go through just as long as Abramovich doesn't benefit from it.  They will want the club off their hands as quickly as possible, and that only happens when someone else owns it.

You should withdraw your fiver offer for Derby and go for Chelsea instead CT

[Changing Times 12,339]

1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

I'm pretty sure it stretches to a LOT more than that.

Then it would be easy for them to point out more things that he's responsible for, and so far they haven't done that have they?  My quote earlier was from the government, and that's what they've said about the sanctions against Abramovich.  You'd think it would be in their interests to put forward a massive list of things he's done rather than owning a company that had potentially been involved in supplying Steel to the Russian military that may have been used in the production of tanks.  It's not exactly a lot is it?  He owns a company that might have supplied steel that might have been used in to make tanks.  I'm not trying to defend Abramovich, more to say that I don't think he's done anything that we didn't know he'd done a long time ago, and which the UK government wasn't remotely interested in.  He's being sanctioned now cos he's Russian, cos he knows Putin, and let's be clear, in the hope that if we go after the wealthy ones that they'll all get together and decide that it's time for Putin to bugger off, as we are afraid to take Putin on directly.  Hopefully it will work but then history shows us that it can take an awful long time for people to turn against dictatorial leaders, that's if they ever do.

In terms of Chelsea, the government should be looking to expedite a sale to allow the club to get back to normal.

[sanddancer 1,967]

17 hours ago, Changing Times said:

The government will allow a sale to go through just as long as Abramovich doesn't benefit from it.  They will want the club off their hands as quickly as possible, and that only happens when someone else owns it.

I read what the government wants and they expect Roman to write off £1.5 billion. I prefer to sit on the fence but I hardly think it ethical to impose sanctions based probability, which could have future implications on UK development, if investors view it a risk when weighing up large projects in the uk. 
 

Edited March 12, 2022 by sanddancer

[sanddancer 1,967]

7 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

I'm pretty sure it stretches to a LOT more than that.

Remember Abramovich has been close friends with Putin for decades. He made his fortune back in the 90s, when all the nationalised industries were put up for sale in a frenzy of capitalism.

Since Putin came to power, he's basically controlled the oligarchs and other major players by promising they would end up like Alexander Litvinenko, if they didn't play ball and do as he said. 

Whether voluntarily or otherwise, Abramovich's assets and wealth will have been of significant use to Putin over the years.

Agree though that successive governments have turned a blind eye to all the Russian money sloshing around in London and should have acted far sooner. Doesn't look great that it took a war before the current incumbents finally took action.

Chelsea's current issues are just an unfortunate side effect of the sanctions. They're being treated like any other business.

For what its worth I do feel sympathy for everyone connected with the club, as I doubt anyone could have foreseen 20 years ago that Putin would suddenly try to create a new Soviet Union. Though alarm bells should have started ringing back in 2014 when he annexed Crimea.

 

The UK has millionaires and billionaires who have profited the same way but let’s not ignore the wealth invested in all countries from African, Chinese, Arab and even West & Eastern Europeans. Power players have connections and are courted for there resources.. 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

13 hours ago, sanddancer said:

The UK has millionaires and billionaires who have profited the same way but let’s not ignore the wealth invested in all countries from African, Chinese, Arab and even West & Eastern Europeans. Power players have connections and are courted for there resources.. 

I never said otherwise.

The issue here is who they are connected to and what illegal actions they may be supporting.

Football in general has been guilty of turning a blind eye to where its money comes from - most significantly the likes of Chelsea, Man City and now Newcastle.

The point remains, we are still right to sanction any Russians with connections to Putin, given what is happening in Ukraine.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by AnglianRed

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,968]

Could Chelsea realistically go bang? Credit cards have now been frozen, they're going to be losing a lot of money at a very rapid rate and as it stands, nobody is allowed to buy them.

[Redcar Rioja 5,974]

7 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Football in general has been guilty of turning a blind eye to where its money comes from - most significantly the likes of Chelsea, Man City and now Newcastle.

You can add FIFA to that list as well.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

10 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Could Chelsea realistically go bang? Credit cards have now been frozen, they're going to be losing a lot of money at a very rapid rate and as it stands, nobody is allowed to buy them.

It seems a possibility to me.

As I understand it they have lost revenue from further ticket sales and merchandising. They have lost their main sponsor 3 (estimated to be worth £40m a season).

At present it seems their only remaining stream of revenue comes from TV money, which while significant, is still a hell of a lot less than they would have had.

"Special measures" will be taken to ensure they can continue to pay players, staff etc. but since we don't know how long the Ukraine conflict will last, we don't know how long the club will remain in this state.

If things don't change by the Summer, its going to mean they can't sign new players to strengthen the team...which will obviously hurt their campaign for next season.

If they don't go bust, they could certainly see a rapid decline. That said I think the conflict will be decided one way or the other by the Summer, which should mean the club can be sold to new owner.

 

[sanddancer 1,967]

19 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

I never said otherwise.

The issue here is who they are connected to and what illegal actions they may be supporting.

Football in general has been guilty of turning a blind eye to where its money comes from - most significantly the likes of Chelsea, Man City and now Newcastle.

The point remains, we are still right to sanction any Russians with connections to Putin, given what is happening in Ukraine.

 

All Russians have connections to Putin he runs the country. Is profiting from a business opportunity a crime?
I can’t make my mind up if association should actually warrant action. With out doubt collaborating and benefiting certainly should invoke sanctions but collective punishment is counter productive as is evident when citizens incur hardships because of leaders. I think it a fine line when without reasonable doubt cannot be established and arguments include, could, thought, probable, possibly which are often used in the media for click bait. 
I expect in years to come lawyers are going to have a field day. 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

12 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

All Russians have connections to Putin he runs the country. Is profiting from a business opportunity a crime?
I can’t make my mind up if association should actually warrant action. With out doubt collaborating and benefiting certainly should invoke sanctions but collective punishment is counter productive as is evident when citizens incur hardships because of leaders. I think it a fine line when without reasonable doubt cannot be established and arguments include, could, thought, probable, possibly which are often used in the media for click bait. 
I expect in years to come lawyers are going to have a field day. 

Stop being obtuse. 

You know full well the sanctions are targeting Russians with significant wealth and assets that Putin can use to prosecute his war. You shouldn't need that spelling out for you.

These people have knowingly associated with and supported an evil dictator for decades.

As an aside it is extremely unfortunate that the sanctions will hurt ordinary Russian citizens the most - many of whom do not support the war...but thats an inescapable side effect.

 

As for calling war a "business opportunity"...

Yeah - they've enjoyed such "business opportunities" as:

Chechnya - 1996

Georgia - 2008

Crimea - 2014

Syria - 2015

...and now Ukraine. Silently standing by and enjoying their wealth and security. Not one of them spoke up until we starting hitting them with sanctions.

 

[wilsoncgp 9,280]

9 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

All Russians have connections to Putin he runs the country. Is profiting from a business opportunity a crime?
I can’t make my mind up if association should actually warrant action. With out doubt collaborating and benefiting certainly should invoke sanctions but collective punishment is counter productive as is evident when citizens incur hardships because of leaders. I think it a fine line when without reasonable doubt cannot be established and arguments include, could, thought, probable, possibly which are often used in the media for click bait. 
I expect in years to come lawyers are going to have a field day. 

Not all Russians have the same kind of connection to Putin Abramovich has though.

In my eyes, now is the right time to act on things that could potentially strongly support Putin's invasion of Ukraine. The connection may not be solid but good luck finding solid connections, they aren't going to fall on your lap. The time for benefit of the doubt is undoubtedly gone.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

49 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Could Chelsea realistically go bang? Credit cards have now been frozen, they're going to be losing a lot of money at a very rapid rate and as it stands, nobody is allowed to buy them.

Ha ha I don’t reckon you’ll be happy until every other club is put out of business DZ! 🤣