Changing Times 12,343 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 hour ago, SmogDane said: Gather a team of skilled players that can help us get promotion, then we have to make s total revamp anyway after ... That's kinda the point, if you have players who can step up then you don't need a total revamp. You brought up our last promotion campaign, I assume to back up the notion that you don't need players who can step up. What happened after we got promoted, did it work out well or not? Link to post Share on other sites
"KM" 1,656 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 I don’t get this overreaction around Martin Payero. It hasn’t worked out for him the way we would have liked but there’s no need to have a dig at Wilder or Boro about it. This isn’t going to stop us taking risks in the future and it’s not going to put players off from joining us. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,343 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, "KM" said: I don’t get this overreaction around Martin Payero. It hasn’t worked out for him the way we would have liked but there’s no need to have a dig at Wilder or Boro about it. This isn’t going to stop us taking risks in the future and it’s not going to put players off from joining us. Has anyone had a dig at Wilder about it? Link to post Share on other sites
thatoldchestnut 583 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, "KM" said: I don’t get this overreaction around Martin Payero. It hasn’t worked out for him the way we would have liked but there’s no need to have a dig at Wilder or Boro about it. This isn’t going to stop us taking risks in the future and it’s not going to put players off from joining us. Not the first player we have made a mistake with and it won't be the last. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Foogle 2,104 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, thatoldchestnut said: Not the first player we have made a mistake with and it won't be the last. We're just like every team in world football then I suppose! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tarmo Kink Army 1,122 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Loaning Payero which resets any progress he made in adapting for 18 months then selling him for a loss is embarrassing, only screws us over and makes us look bad Link to post Share on other sites
mendieta420 1,006 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink Army said: Loaning Payero which resets any progress he made in adapting for 18 months then selling him for a loss is embarrassing, only screws us over and makes us look bad how do you know its for a loss? the loan fee could be anything 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Foxtrot Oscar Colin 607 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Changing Times said: Using you analogy, my concern is that we are learning to hop rather than walk, and that when the time comes when we need to run, we'll just be left having to try and hop really quickly. I just think we need to make use of the free and loan market well if we are wanting to build a squad capable of pushing for promotion in the short term. I think I read we are down to about 15 senior pros who are actually wanted at the club? It would be a risk imo to not then go and get players like Lenehan, Gayle and Giles for little outlay initially who are proven players at this level to start making up that squad again. Personally I do want to see us go down the route of buying players to develop to a high level and sell on but with the amount of players we need this season I don't think that's going to be possible whilst giving us a good chance of success. Really we need a settled squad of players good enough to challenge in this division for the next 3 years then maybe bring in 2 or 3 a window that can improve us and push on. We all know there's no guarantee of instant success in the championship. Also and I've mentioned this before that we are buying players to suit a managers system rather than a club philosophy still. Until we identify a way of playing that suits us and brings success and managers should be brought in who suit that then we will struggle to recruit for the long term in the way say Brentford do so I completely agree with the transfer policy of the club so far with wilder as basically if he leaves or he struggles and we have waxed a fortune on players that suit his system that are here on 4 year deals we are back where we were under monk potentially without learning a thing. As things stand with the players coming/linked in it's quite low risk but also proven quality at this level. Link to post Share on other sites
Foogle 2,104 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Foxtrot Oscar Colin said: I just think we need to make use of the free and loan market well if we are wanting to build a squad capable of pushing for promotion in the short term. I think I read we are down to about 15 senior pros who are actually wanted at the club? It would be a risk imo to not then go and get players like Lenehan, Gayle and Giles for little outlay initially who are proven players at this level to start making up that squad again. Personally I do want to see us go down the route of buying players to develop to a high level and sell on but with the amount of players we need this season I don't think that's going to be possible whilst giving us a good chance of success. Really we need a settled squad of players good enough to challenge in this division for the next 3 years then maybe bring in 2 or 3 a window that can improve us and push on. We all know there's no guarantee of instant success in the championship. Also and I've mentioned this before that we are buying players to suit a managers system rather than a club philosophy still. Until we identify a way of playing that suits us and brings success and managers should be brought in who suit that then we will struggle to recruit for the long term in the way say Brentford do so I completely agree with the transfer policy of the club so far with wilder as basically if he leaves or he struggles and we have waxed a fortune on players that suit his system that are here on 4 year deals we are back where we were under monk potentially without learning a thing. As things stand with the players coming/linked in it's quite low risk but also proven quality at this level. I mean we're just looking to bring in good footballers it seems, ball playing Centre backs, strikers who can link play. It's hardly like we're getting a bunch of Pulis plodders who will struggle to adapt to another forward thinking manager? Which I think is the point of the direction we're going. Link to post Share on other sites
DurhamRed 2,047 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Shocking decision to loan Martin back to Argentina especially for this length of time. I had my hopes up that as payero featured heavily in the preseason media shots he was set to be a part of our squad. But nope we given up on a 6 million player for pretty much a dead loss 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernSmoggie 4,242 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, DurhamRed said: Shocking decision to loan Martin back to Argentina especially for this length of time. I had my hopes up that as payero featured heavily in the preseason media shots he was set to be a part of our squad. But nope we given up on a 6 million player for pretty much a dead loss If it's true, it's because Wilder doesn't rate him enough. He'll have seen plenty of Payero in training at this point. Don't think Wilder's the type to get bulldozed into working with a player he doesn't fancy... So the club may have to bite the bullet and get his wages off the books, as embarrasing as that may be. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Maz 2,899 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, DurhamRed said: Shocking decision to loan Martin back to Argentina especially for this length of time. I had my hopes up that as payero featured heavily in the preseason media shots he was set to be a part of our squad. But nope we given up on a 6 million player for pretty much a dead loss We didn't pay 6 million for him. The entire deal inckuding wages and performance /appearance fees and transfer fee was reported as 6m. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Foogle 2,104 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Mr_Maz said: We didn't pay 6 million for him. The entire deal inckuding wages and performance /appearance fees and transfer fee was reported as 6m. Think this is why we're so willing to let go, if the experiment has cost is about a million all in, it's not great but hardly the end of the world... Link to post Share on other sites
SmogDane 4,055 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 59 minutes ago, Changing Times said: That's kinda the point, if you have players who can step up then you don't need a total revamp. You brought up our last promotion campaign, I assume to back up the notion that you don't need players who can step up. What happened after we got promoted, did it work out well or not? You are ignoring the fact, that they don't hang on trees ... Ofc we would get the absolute best players possible if we can afford their wages etc ... You need to be a PL team to attract genuine PL players ... ... Second part ... If we had played differently ... I am sure we could have survived ... Karanka was too negative and our very capable striker Negredo couldn't do it all himself... He still managed 9 goals in the absolute poorest attack that season ... If we gave him a partner ... Stuani? ... Things might have looked brighter ... Back to reality ... You have to get the best possible players within your budget ... I am sure we are doing that right now ... Then IF and when you get promoted... You need new players again ... Would be nice to keep at least half the team i the starting 11 ... But a revamp is needed .. our last PL season stands out as a How Not To Do example Now I think even you, my friend, can understand it 😘 Link to post Share on other sites
DurhamRed 2,047 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said: If it's true, it's because Wilder doesn't rate him enough. He'll have seen plenty of Payero in training at this point. Don't think Wilder's the type to get bulldozed into working with a player he doesn't fancy... So the club may have to bite the bullet and get his wages off the books, as embarrasing as that may be. I just feel we are giving up on the lad before he got the chance to truly show what he is capable of. As the few minutes he did play for us he looked to have so much skill and technique Link to post Share on other sites
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