TeaCider's Summer Transfer Thread 2022 - AKA: Still Going For Just a Little Luongo

[Foxtrot Oscar Colin 607]

22 minutes ago, Smokedsalmon said:

Not a chance. No manager plays with a midfield 3 and tells all of them to play box to box.

Howson is the deepest of the 3 whenever we are in possession, always. He is the #6 being tasked with the "Oli Norwood role" of being the metronome in centre midfield that stays deeper, breaks up play, and distributes the ball forwards.

He's just *** at doing it.

Howson does get in the opponents box tho. He also plays very high up for a 6 and closed men down all game leaving holes and has done since Wilder arrived. Wilder must have some patience letting someone show that much Ill discipline for so long and keep him in the side and give him a new contract? He's not asked to play as a defensive midfielder yes he's slightly deeper than the other 2 but essentially its 3 8s. Wilder is content to be left 3 on 3 at the back in favour of trying to win possession back quickly further up the pitch. Willock and chair were out wide and Dykes up top and we leave the 3 defenders to deal with that. That's just how it is. Howson is doing what he's being asked to do. Nobody in our team protects space really they close down the man on the ball. I'm not saying I agree with it it's just clearly what the manager wants.

[LBP 3,035]

1 minute ago, McSpin said:

Larsen just scored , the game can be watched for free on the Bet 365 App if people want to see what we are missing. You need to put £5 into an account but don’t need to spend it. You can only watch it on a phone screen size image though.

Watch it on desktop and zoom into the page

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

2 minutes ago, macapes said:

Yep, Djiksteel was it who was on him after Jones missed the tackle should have taken him out.

He really should have. Hence Wilders comments about no wonder he never gets booked. Sometimes you need to make a professional foul and take a yellow when the oppositions best player is bearing down on our goal. 

[edinboro 815]

32 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Take ownership of other players making bad passes and poor tackles?

Sorry, what I meant was he wasn't leading, shouting, getting stuck into them. He just seemed to be looking around a bit lost as to what to do. 

[BoroSmoggie 2,708]

1 hour ago, Smokedsalmon said:

I know that strikers have been the biggest topic of discussion this summer but, for me, the midfield has always been the biggest problem.

This one image sums up why. This is about 8 seconds before Chris Willock scores. We have 3 midfielders on the pitch, by the way.

Look at that massive hole in the middle of the park. That is where Jonny Howson should be, closing down Willock and preventing the goal. So where is he?

This is when Willock picks up possession. Howson is in an advanced wide area, jogging behind him, completely out of the game. Neither McGree nor Crooks have filled in his position, either.

It is actually a complete *** disgrace that this goal happens. It is a total comedy of errors starting with Jones' awful pass. The midfielders positioning + work rate to track back is laughable.

Until we replace Howson with a defensively competent, physically gifted defensive midfielder we are going to concede goals like this time and time again (spoiler: we already do, same thing happened versus West Brom).

 

Having a ‘physically gifted defensive midfielder’ isn’t going to a change a thing in that scenario. Wilder wants his 6 to get involved in the attacking build up play. It would help if Jones stops needlessly giving the ball away. No defensive midfielder is going to catch Willock when he past you by 5m. The only player that can catch him is Jones and he decides to go to ground and make a pathetic attempt at at a tackle. 

The photos you show is what’s known as a ‘break’ in football and happens numerous times every game against all teams in every division. Its even a 4v2 in the first photo you show so although it’s a bad situation to be in, if we do our job it ultimately shouldn’t be resulting in a goal. 

Im not saying we don’t need to upgrade Howson but to out him for there first goal, is just ridiculous. Also I find using still shots to be a stupid way to interpret something as they add absolutely no context as to why it’s happening. 

1. Jones should not lose the ball so cheaply, causing the initial breakaway.

2. Jones shouldn’t dive in and go to ground. If you do then wipe him out, take a yellow and they can have a free kick 60 yards from goal. 

3. Dijksteel NEEDS to take him down before he gets his shot off. Again, take the yellow card and run the risk of giving them a free kick in a dangerous area. 

4. Lenihan should probably close down Willock better as hes not actually doing anything helpful when he shoots. 

That’s how I saw the first goal. Howson not to blame. It’s on Wilder to change how he wants his 6 to play. Then we can all blame Howson before anyone else.

[JTG 2,267]

I wonder whether Wilder thinks the midfield is as much of an issue as I and many others seem to think. He’s said quite a few times that he thinks “the bit in the middle” is our biggest asset and it’s the top and bottom of the pitch that is letting us down.

I tend to think the midfield is a contributing factor. Not creative enough at times and don’t cover the defence well enough.

[RiversideRed 1,216]

17 minutes ago, TLF10 said:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/josh-coburn-middlesbrough-injury-blow-24692455
 

Gazette saying its 1 more after Hoppe. But @Lurker saying its 1 more after Hoppe and Muniz.

Hoping Lurker is right. Forss, Hoppe, Muniz and 1 more proven addition would be great.

The club tell them what to say. It's probably done on purpose. We bring in Hoppe & Muniz this week and teams will think we're done for strikers. Then we go back in for Armstrong or Larsen at the end of the window.

Muniz, Hoppe, Forss, Akpom and Watmore simply ain't good or proven enough for a team pushing for Promotion. 

I like the signings but we need a marquee striker who's a proven goal scorer.

[Duvel 2,446]

42 minutes ago, Foxtrot Oscar Colin said:

Thats how Wilder is asking him to play tho. I'm sure howson is professional enough to play as a 6 if asked but Wilder never has played with an out and out 6. Howson is primarily asked to close down opponents and get box to box not look after space in behind from what I've seen since Wilder come in. That's why this happens time and again. 

I think time will tell but hopefully we won't concede too many more goals like yesterday where there's a gaping hole between the defence and midfield. 

I would have to watch more of Howson and pay more attention to his positioning before I criticise him too much but it does feel like we need someone to sit a bit more in midfield.

I haven't played anywhere close to his level but my idea of a defensive midfielder is that you never really go beyond the ball to prevent breakaways like we saw yesterday. If the game is being played in front of you then you're generally in a decent position on the pitch, obviously if Howson's game has always been box to box then it might be harder for him to stop following the ball and getting caught too high. If there's big gaps behind Jones and Giles then its even more important than last season where we had more of a defender at LWB. 

Wilder's system has been really effective in this division but there were times last season where we had big gaps between the defence and midfield when we were defending and between midfield and attack when we were going forward. I don't know whether that's a problem with the system or an issue with not having enough players to fit this shape. 

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

5 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Having a ‘physically gifted defensive midfielder’ isn’t going to a change a thing in that scenario. Wilder wants his 6 to get involved in the attacking build up play. It would help if Jones stops needlessly giving the ball away. No defensive midfielder is going to catch Willock when he past you by 5m. The only player that can catch him is Jones and he decides to go to ground and make a pathetic attempt at at a tackle. 

The photos you show is what’s known as a ‘break’ in football and happens numerous times every game against all teams in every division. Its even a 4v2 in the first photo you show so although it’s a bad situation to be in, if we do our job it ultimately shouldn’t be resulting in a goal. 

Im not saying we don’t need to upgrade Howson but to out him for there first goal, is just ridiculous. Also I find using still shots to be a stupid way to interpret something as they add absolutely no context as to why it’s happening. 

1. Jones should not lose the ball so cheaply, causing the initial breakaway.

2. Jones shouldn’t dive in and go to ground. If you do then wipe him out, take a yellow and they can have a free kick 60 yards from goal. 

3. Dijksteel NEEDS to take him down before he gets his shot off. Again, take the yellow card and run the risk of giving them a free kick in a dangerous area. 

4. Lenihan should probably close down Willock better as hes not actually doing anything helpful when he shoots. 

That’s how I saw the first goal. Howson not to blame. It’s on Wilder to change how he wants his 6 to play. Then we can all blame Howson before anyone else.

Completely agree mate - how on earth is this goal Howson's fault... It's a breakaway, they happen when you're a possession based side. Trip him up, take a yellow, defend a 60 yard free kick. I'm sure Wilder will be saying that exact thing to Jones and Dijk.

[Duvel 2,446]

40 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Having a ‘physically gifted defensive midfielder’ isn’t going to a change a thing in that scenario. Wilder wants his 6 to get involved in the attacking build up play. It would help if Jones stops needlessly giving the ball away. No defensive midfielder is going to catch Willock when he past you by 5m. The only player that can catch him is Jones and he decides to go to ground and make a pathetic attempt at at a tackle. 

The photos you show is what’s known as a ‘break’ in football and happens numerous times every game against all teams in every division. Its even a 4v2 in the first photo you show so although it’s a bad situation to be in, if we do our job it ultimately shouldn’t be resulting in a goal. 

Im not saying we don’t need to upgrade Howson but to out him for there first goal, is just ridiculous. Also I find using still shots to be a stupid way to interpret something as they add absolutely no context as to why it’s happening. 

1. Jones should not lose the ball so cheaply, causing the initial breakaway.

2. Jones shouldn’t dive in and go to ground. If you do then wipe him out, take a yellow and they can have a free kick 60 yards from goal. 

3. Dijksteel NEEDS to take him down before he gets his shot off. Again, take the yellow card and run the risk of giving them a free kick in a dangerous area. 

4. Lenihan should probably close down Willock better as hes not actually doing anything helpful when he shoots. 

That’s how I saw the first goal. Howson not to blame. It’s on Wilder to change how he wants his 6 to play. Then we can all blame Howson before anyone else.

Without going back and watching the highlights it looks like the defence is way too deep in those pictures, like they should be 20 yards higher up the pitch. 

The whole team should be pushed higher up the pitch in that situation. 

 

 

Edit - just rewatched the clips of the game. For the first goal Howson is really high up the pitch, there's a huge gap between him and Lenihan/Bola. If Wilder wants him to play that high then our 3 centre backs need to be pushed up almost to the half way line and I'd guess when Jones had the ball they were at least 10 yards too deep. Dijksteel is in a decent position he's almost playing in a standard full back position and if he makes the tackle or foul then we stop the goal. 

Jones' pass was sloppy but that will happen from your attacking players and we should still be able to deal with it. When that ball is passed we've got i think 6 players ahead of the ball, that becomes 7 when Howson doesn't win the ball, for me Howson should probably be sat a bit deeper and Lenhihan and Bola should be higher up the pitch, we've got about 50 yards of space between our deepest defenders and our deepest midfielder, thats far too much and why are we so deep, did QPR have a lot of pace up front. 

The positioning of the team was really poor and we've given them far too much space even if it is a breakaway. The most costly mistake was probably Dijksteel for not taking a tactical yellow, so in hindsight I'd probably agree with Wilder in that but positionally we are all over the shop and Wilder needs to look at that. 

You could forgive that goal if we are losing with 20 mins to go but not after 11 minutes, away from home and at 0-0. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Duvel

[TheHolgate 683]

36 minutes ago, TLF10 said:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/josh-coburn-middlesbrough-injury-blow-24692455
 

Gazette saying its 1 more after Hoppe. But @Lurker saying its 1 more after Hoppe and Muniz.

Hoping Lurker is right. Forss, Hoppe, Muniz and 1 more proven addition would be great.

Lurker will be right. 

[ManBearPig 1,853]

2 hours ago, Smokedsalmon said:

Great post and exactly what I saw on the highlights yesterday. My biggest concern is that we always seem to be done on the counter attack when the midfield 3 have pushed up. Crooks and McGree should push up, but Howson doesn’t need to push up but he continually does. 
 

Last season we conceded goals from this space behind the midfielders, but I can’t work out why we don’t have an anchor to just sit. I don’t think that’s Howsons game. We need a Clayton type of player who will sit and plug and bring someone down if needed. I actually thought Crooks did okay in that role when we played some minutes there. 
 

Final point is that I’m more worried that new strikers aren’t going to solve this issue. Our midfield is more problematic than the strikers and I don’t see us challenging unless we tweak it  

[TLF10 4,490]

Klick wants to leave Leeds in search of first team football. He turned 32 in June but when I seen him he has struck me as anproper box to box midfielder. I know we looking to develop future players but could do with some ready made players too.

[PayeroAndParty 26]

29 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Without going back and watching the highlights it looks like the defence is way too deep in those pictures, like they should be 20 yards higher up the pitch. 

The whole team should be pushed higher up the pitch in that situation. 

Edit - just rewatched the clips of the game. For the first goal Howson is really high up the pitch, there's a huge gap between him and Lenihan/Bola. If Wilder wants him to play that high then our 3 centre backs need to be pushed up almost to the half way line and I'd guess when Jones had the ball they were at least 10 yards too deep. Dijksteel is in a decent position he's almost playing in a standard full back position and if he makes the tackle or foul then we stop the goal. 

Jones' pass was sloppy but that will happen from your attacking players and we should still be able to deal with it. When that ball is passed we've got i think 6 players ahead of the ball, that becomes 7 when Howson doesn't win the ball, for me Howson should probably be sat a bit deeper and Lenhihan and Bola should be higher up the pitch, we've got about 50 yards of space between our deepest defenders and our deepest midfielder, thats far too much and why are we so deep, did QPR have a lot of pace up front. 

I’m sure it was Howson on that first goal is saying to Leninan exactly that, telling him to come out to block/put pressure on willock for his shot.

[pikerman 1,121]

24 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Without going back and watching the highlights it looks like the defence is way too deep in those pictures, like they should be 20 yards higher up the pitch. 

The whole team should be pushed higher up the pitch in that situation. 

Good shout Duvel, the three centre backs stayed deep all the first half, leaving acres of space for QPR to exploit in front of them. I cannot believe that Wilder asked them to do this as we just don’t have the legs in the team to get back, so can only presume that the three of them just did not do as instructed. It was noticeable that this changed second half and for a while we looked a compact unit. Having thought about it overnight and calmed down a bit, my only conclusion is that we don’t have the players for this system. Oh for a Claude Makelele or Ngolo Kante  in that central defensive position , then Wilders system would work