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TeaCider's Summer Transfer Thread 2022


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22 minutes ago, ManBearPig said:

The point I was saying is that he isn’t great at set piece delivery, and for a player who would be pushing north of 10m, you’d expect better and more consistent delivery. 

Would you? There's plenty of players gone for far more that don't take corners at all, or as inconsistent as Tav is. As was pointed out by someone else, the main reason Tav is on corners is because he is left footed, not because he is meant to be fantastic at them.

 

23 minutes ago, ManBearPig said:

His midfielder rank is 149 out of 588 players last season. 

Where is this?

 

24 minutes ago, ManBearPig said:

2018- 20 games, 3 goals, 1 assist.

2019- 37 games, 3 goals, 5 assists.

2020- 29 games, 3 goals, 4 assists.

20201- 44 games, 5 goals, 5 assists. 
In a span of 4 years, I’m seeing a slight improvement, but he’s hardly pulling up trees? 
This season he has had 86 shots and only got 28 on target. So he’s not a goal scoring midfielder, but then also isn’t providing assists either? Hence why I said yesterday he is useful to make us tick over in midfield, but let’s not pretend that he is integral to us in the final third. 

I think going back before Wilder came in is an unfair comparison, in 2018 and 2019 he played more like a winger, under Warnock he was pushed further forward as a more advanced midfielder. Whilst people recognised his talent before this season, it has taken Wilder's system to bring the best out of him.

I'm not sure it's fair to say he's not creative based on a lack of assists, Tav's getting an assist requires someone finishing a chance, something we were one of the worst teams in the league at doing. Tav alone had an xA number more than 5 higher than his actual number of assists, 5 goals and 10 assists from a midfield role would be fairly impressive to me.

Here's a dashboard of a number of stats and his percentile rank within the Championship, he's in the top 25% of every creative stat barring non-penalty goals per 90, and in the top 15% of the majority of them.

image.thumb.png.5593da66f9409591845643a1871d4404.png

I also don't think judging a player who is playing a box-to-box all action midfield role purely on goals and assists is very fair, but if you wish to do that then fair enough.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, RiversideRed said:

Too many people do. It's goal contributions and nothing else that people look at.

Agreed, Tav's a perfect box to box midfielder at this level. I thought Leadbitter and Clayton were grafters for us in midfield and he puts them to shame. His finishing and delivery are inconsistent for sure, but he has so many positive attributes that he brings to the table. Absolutely unbreakable mental as well. Even when his form dipped and he had the Riverside on his back, he never hid from the ball.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Will said:

Would you? There's plenty of players gone for far more that don't take corners at all, or as inconsistent as Tav is. As was pointed out by someone else, the main reason Tav is on corners is because he is left footed, not because he is meant to be fantastic at them.

 

Where is this?

 

I think going back before Wilder came in is an unfair comparison, in 2018 and 2019 he played more like a winger, under Warnock he was pushed further forward as a more advanced midfielder. Whilst people recognised his talent before this season, it has taken Wilder's system to bring the best out of him.

I'm not sure it's fair to say he's not creative based on a lack of assists, Tav's getting an assist requires someone finishing a chance, something we were one of the worst teams in the league at doing. Tav alone had an xA number more than 5 higher than his actual number of assists, 5 goals and 10 assists from a midfield role would be fairly impressive to me.

Here's a dashboard of a number of stats and his percentile rank within the Championship, he's in the top 25% of every creative stat barring non-penalty goals per 90, and in the top 15% of the majority of them.

image.thumb.png.5593da66f9409591845643a1871d4404.png

I also don't think judging a player who is playing a box-to-box all action midfield role purely on goals and assists is very fair, but if you wish to do that then fair enough.

 

 

Would love that guy to do in-depth stats from Tavernier this season to see how he compares to other box-to-box midfielders in the league. I'd be keen to see where he gets all the stats from too. It's very interesting.

That's only the first half of the season too. Would love to see it from just under Wilder or the full season.

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9 minutes ago, RiversideRed said:

Would love that guy to do in-depth stats from Tavernier this season to see how he compares to other box-to-box midfielders in the league. I'd be keen to see where he gets all the stats from too. It's very interesting.

That one was done in February, I've asked for an updated one and will post if it comes.

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2 minutes ago, Will said:

That one was done in February, I've asked for an updated one and will post if it comes.

It would be great if we can get one. Would like to see where Tavernier is ranked on different statistics in comparison to other CM's. I think people are genuinely expecting him to be like Morgan Gibbs-White in front of net. 

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28 minutes ago, RiversideRed said:

People need to realise just how good and important Tavernier is.

If he got 5 goals and 10 assists. He'd be gone in a heartbeat.

This is what he should've got if our strikers could finish. Personally I think that's a fantastic performance from a box to box midfielder.

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3 minutes ago, Will said:

This is what he should've got if our strikers could finish. Personally I think that's a fantastic performance from a box to box midfielder.

It's a performance which would land you a move to a Premier League club straight away.

People need to realise just how good he is because a full season under Wilder and we'd not stand a chance of keeping him. 

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23 hours ago, scotty189 said:

According to talkSPORT Boro Are Reportedly Making A Move For Bournemouth Pair Jack Stacey & Gavin Kilkenny.

Can't say i know too much about either, Stacey played around 20games last season so must have something about him.

Kilkenny is the more interesting one to me. A lot of Bournemouth fans seem to really rate him. Apparently started his career out as a number 10 / right midfielder but Scott Parker has moulded him into more of a sitting midfielder.

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4 minutes ago, JTG said:

Kilkenny is the more interesting one to me. A lot of Bournemouth fans seem to really rate him. Apparently started his career out as a number 10 / right midfielder but Scott Parker has moulded him into more of a sitting midfielder.

He seems to fit the mould. I don't think Wilder necessarily wants a pure defensive midfielder as the other 2 CMs help out defensively. But he does want a player who's always available for a pass in the centre and has a great range of passing themselves (like Norwood).

You could see it with Howson this season that the defined role really bought the best out of him, it suits a jack of all trades player.

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22 minutes ago, RiversideRed said:

It's a performance which would land you a move to a Premier League club straight away.

People need to realise just how good he is because a full season under Wilder and we'd not stand a chance of keeping him. 

If I were Tav and I was looking at what my brother achieved and I believed I was good enough to play in the Prem then I would be thinking that I needed to be playing in the Prem within the next 12 months or risk missing out. 

I have no doubt that Tav is really bonded with the club, the area and the players but he is bound to be thinking that for the last 2-3 seasons both he and the club have gone nowhere. I suspect that if a club like Leeds made a really determined bid for him that he would say yes but also that he would knuckle down and stay here for 12 months if we made it plain we didn't want to sell.  

Tav is probably one of a handful of players we have who believe they are good enough for the Premier league. For those players, the clock is ticking because unless we get promoted they won't get many firm bids. For the record, I suspect that Fry, McNair, Tav, Jones, Dijksteel, McGree and maybe Crooks regard themselves as capable of making the step up to the Premier league.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Bruce said:

If I were Tav and I was looking at what my brother achieved and I believed I was good enough to play in the Prem then I would be thinking that I needed to be playing in the Prem within the next 12 months or risk missing out. 

I have no doubt that Tav is really bonded with the club, the area and the players but he is bound to be thinking that for the last 2-3 seasons both he and the club have gone nowhere. I suspect that if a club like Leeds made a really determined bid for him that he would say yes but also that he would knuckle down and stay here for 12 months if we made it plain we didn't want to sell.  

Tav is probably one of a handful of players we have who believe they are good enough for the Premier league. For those players, the clock is ticking because unless we get promoted they won't get many firm bids. For the record, I suspect that Fry, McNair, Tav, Jones, Dijksteel, McGree and maybe Crooks regard themselves as capable of making the step up to the Premier league.

At the same time, his brother is 7 and a half years older than him and barring a handful of appearances for Newcastle, didn't play in the top flight until he was 25 and that was in Scotland.

He didn't win anything until he was 30.

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8 minutes ago, Bruce said:

If I were Tav and I was looking at what my brother achieved and I believed I was good enough to play in the Prem then I would be thinking that I needed to be playing in the Prem within the next 12 months or risk missing out. 

I have no doubt that Tav is really bonded with the club, the area and the players but he is bound to be thinking that for the last 2-3 seasons both he and the club have gone nowhere. I suspect that if a club like Leeds made a really determined bid for him that he would say yes but also that he would knuckle down and stay here for 12 months if we made it plain we didn't want to sell.  

Tav is probably one of a handful of players we have who believe they are good enough for the Premier league. For those players, the clock is ticking because unless we get promoted they won't get many firm bids. For the record, I suspect that Fry, McNair, Tav, Jones, Dijksteel, McGree and maybe Crooks regard themselves as capable of making the step up to the Premier league.

His brother's failed in England twice and is sat playing in Scotland in his prime.

Fair enough, it's an achievement reaching the Europa League final which you have to give them credit for. 

But he's playing in a league which is Championship standard at the top half and League 1/2 standard in the bottom half.

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54 minutes ago, JTG said:

Kilkenny is the more interesting one to me. A lot of Bournemouth fans seem to really rate him. Apparently started his career out as a number 10 / right midfielder but Scott Parker has moulded him into more of a sitting midfielder.

Weird stats with Kilkenny. Twice in the season he's just disappeared out of the squad and it doesn't look like he was injured. Played quite a few games from the start in the first half of the season and was then out of the squad from february and then played 90 mins in the last game.

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