3 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Points per game is a far more useful metric, and actual position in the league. Doesn't fit the narrative for Warnock apologists though.

Indeed.  

Transfermarkt has Warnock on 1.29 PPG for this season, 22 points from 17 games.  Wilder got 48 points from 29, from the same source.  Which is 1.65 PPG.

Warnocks average has us on 59 points over a full season.

Wilder's over a full season is 76.

That's 5th place versus 17th.

2 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I see it as very different and was the reason just this week that there was so much discussion on here at the suggestion of Ben Gibson returning. Left footed and a CB yes, but not the marauding overlapping type that Wilder seems to like.

No conventional Wingers as such in his system and his Strikers are hardly the norm (even if he or Scott could find one that suits "his" system) let alone one that scores. Add in that if a new Manager wanted conventional LB's or RB's then we would be stuffed, and that's just for starters. Sure some Players can adapt and adjust but isn't that exactly what the Club said they were trying to prevent?

Isn't that same problem going to be a problem no matter who is in charge though? It's never going to be perfect but if you recruit players who suit a basic style of football and recruit managers who have their own iteration on that then that's fine.

At the end of the day, it's not like these marauding centre backs are exactly a niche style of footballer, they're footballers who can play that way but can also play other ways. Dijksteel and McNair, when they've been at their best, have done the role well but they can still play in their positions or other positions well and it's their comfortable nature on the ball that will transition between managers nicely. 

Wingers is a fair point but that just comes back to the point about formation, that's nothing specifically to do with Wilderball, that's just teams who want to play some version of 3-5-2. And to be fair, the best wing back we currently have is a winger by trade so... who's to say we can't cover that as well?

I just don't see the need for panic on that front at all. Wilderball isn't miles away from other possession based football and recruitment can still generally be handled better and allow for iteration of the same brand of football.

7 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

We’d have finished 5th.

Well there you go. Cheers CT. For everyone wanting Wilder out give your head a shake. 

Just now, BoroSmoggie said:

Well there you go. Cheers CT. For everyone wanting Wilder out give your head a shake. 

Oh I’d still get rid of the useless bugger, mind.

I'm still cautiously optimistic about next season.

Today was rancid but it was never in our hands. It never felt like a promotion season to me.

The worst part about today is it wasn’t a surprise.

Think long term, fellas...if we are trying to be more like a Brentford-type model, that doesn't happen overnight. I'm still optimistic for next year. Bummed about us not showing up today, mind, but onwards and upwards...

That was crap

Wilders record getting teams promoted speaks for itself Oxford, Norhampton and Sheff Utd, does anybody actually believe that Wilder doesn't feel he needs to make big improvements, some on here are starting to sound as fickle as the Mackem and Geordie fans. I honestly don't know where some of you are coming from.

We played crap we got beat get over it.

1 minute ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

The worst part about today is it wasn’t a surprise.

It was a bit.  Conceding 4 is a bit worse than usual for us.

1 minute ago, wilsoncgp said:

Isn't that same problem going to be a problem no matter who is in charge though? It's never going to be perfect but if you recruit players who suit a basic style of football and recruit managers who have their own iteration on that then that's fine.

At the end of the day, it's not like these marauding centre backs are exactly a niche style of footballer, they're footballers who can play that way but can also play other ways. Dijksteel and McNair, when they've been at their best, have done the role well but they can still play in their positions or other positions well and it's their comfortable nature on the ball that will transition between managers nicely. 

Wingers is a fair point but that just comes back to the point about formation, that's nothing specifically to do with Wilderball, that's just teams who want to play some version of 3-5-2. And to be fair, the best wing back we currently have is a winger by trade so... who's to say we can't cover that as well?

I just don't see the need for panic on that front at all. Wilderball isn't miles away from other possession based football and recruitment can still generally be handled better and allow for iteration of the same brand of football.

I see your point but disagree on the basis that I see Wilderball as a particularly unique way of possession based Football which is great when it's working for Wilder but not so good when the opposition have sussed it out as we are starting to see. It's the total lack of an alternative up his sleeve that I find more concerning and something that was levelled at Pulis, Karanka etc. previously. I see this ending the same way and then what as it wasn't what the original plan was supposed to be all about unless Scott wanted us to play the Wilder way which I very much doubt. 

After Burnley Wilder has slipped in terms of trust and belief with some fans hence the concerns. Add in his Strikers in January etc. and if it doesn't work out then we will have spent the Spence money on Players that are not wanted by a new Manager because only Wilder plays his way. It would be so very typical of Boro as every time we seem to get a few quid we relive it up the wall and the Manager is then gone half way through the next season. If that does happen then I don't see us getting another Manager that plays his way.

Far too many folks want instant success, it is not going to happen.  It takes time!  I literally do not get peoples logic on here.  If we’d have gone into the top 6 a good portion on here would be saying CW is amazing and all that.  Give the bloke a season or 2, it would have been nice to go up or even have a go but I would fear if we did get into PL.  this place would be in meltdown weekly.  
 

Now go and look forward to a busy summer of ins and outs!  UTB

7 minutes ago, macapes said:

Indeed.  

Transfermarkt has Warnock on 1.29 PPG for this season, 22 points from 17 games.  Wilder got 48 points from 29, from the same source.  Which is 1.65 PPG.

Warnocks average has us on 59 points over a full season.

Wilder's over a full season is 76.

That's 5th place versus 17th.

In our last 10 league games we've averaged 1.5 points per game which would be good enough for 69 points and level with Blackburn/Millwall over a season in 8th/9th. 

As I said I think Wilder definitely deserves more time but I can see the argument from those who are concerned about the way the season has ended. 

About 6 weeks ago I thought we'd either get promoted this season or be one of the favourites in next seasons Championship. Now when you look at next season I honestly wouldn't be surprised with a promotion challenge or a season where we finish about 10th. 

Something has changed in the last half a dozen games, its probably just lack of form but it is concerning if teams have worked Wilder out. 

2 minutes ago, Rioch's Braves said:

Wilders record getting teams promoted speaks for itself Oxford, Norhampton and Sheff Utd, does anybody actually believe that Wilder doesn't feel he needs to make big improvements, some on here are starting to sound as fickle as the Mackem and Geordie fans. I honestly don't know where some of you are coming from.

We played crap we got beat get over it.

Warnock has a better record of getting teams promoted...just saying... 😉

5 minutes ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

The worst part about today is it wasn’t a surprise.

I dunno man, an own goal, a red card, a direct goal from a corner (even if it wasn't given), McNair giving piggy backs, Tav scoring with his head, it was all pretty surprising to me.