6 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

I reckon we might try cash in on Jones. Think he might be one of the surprise ones

I'm hoping that whatever money we get from outgoings Wilder gets a decent transfer budget. I hope we can hold onto Jones but a big offer may be too much for the club to turn down. 

28 minutes ago, Leesider said:

Yeah cause results never changes over a season do they? I dunno why we bother playing all those games when all you have to do is take a third of the season & multiply the points total by 3. New manager bounce,injured players coming back ,new signings never make any difference at all?

Im not saying Warnock would have taken us up but i doubt if the difference points wise would have been significanty different. 

Recruitment left us down big time this season

Of course results can change.  Our results dramatically improved after Warnock left by way of an example.  At the point Warnock was sacked we were 14th, we were going at 1.29 points per game.  The previous full season we went at 1.39 points per game.  His overall record here, which includes cup games, is 1.32 points per game.  There's nothing at all to suggest that any improvement would have been made other than wishful thinking.  Under Wilder we have gone at 1.66 points per game.  That's the 5th best record in the league in that time I believe.  Warnock has only bettered 1.66 points per game in 5 seasons over the last 25 years or so.  So whilst it's still possible that we could have suddenly improved under him and finished this season with more points, it's not that likely even based on his own career record, let alone the actual situation we were in when he was sacked here.

You also seem to have contradicted yourself above.  You talk about new signings but then say recruitment let us down big time this season.  As we know that our signings in January haven't been up to much, it seems fair to say that our league position now is despite that, which would seem to be a point for Wilder rather than against him, as he's improved us without being able to improve the squad.

Bottom line is that we're better off now than we would have been had Warnock continued in all likelihood.  If you start playing the 'we could have' game then of course you can say that we could have done just as well had Warnock been kept on, you can say we could have won all 29 remaining games if you like.  The question is how likely those things are, and the evidence tells you that it wasn't likely at all.

Good foundation season now it's time to build. Onwards and upwards UTB

11 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

I reckon we might try cash in on Jones. Think he might be one of the surprise ones

Possibly. I think its Djed and Tav myself but we will soon see. 

Wilder post match is like when Gibson came out and said next season we will smash the league kind off. What does attitude over ability mean more Connollys as he has bags of attitude and no ability 

46 minutes ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

I think this has been a big issue. Last summer they should have backed or sacked Warnock

Sacked him 👍

12 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Of course results can change.  Our results dramatically improved after Warnock left by way of an example.  At the point Warnock was sacked we were 14th, we were going at 1.29 points per game.  The previous full season we went at 1.39 points per game.  His overall record here, which includes cup games, is 1.32 points per game.  There's nothing at all to suggest that any improvement would have been made other than wishful thinking.  Under Wilder we have gone at 1.66 points per game.  That's the 5th best record in the league in that time I believe.  Warnock has only bettered 1.66 points per game in 5 seasons over the last 25 years or so.  So whilst it's still possible that we could have suddenly improved under him and finished this season with more points, it's not that likely even based on his own career record, let alone the actual situation we were in when he was sacked here.

You also seem to have contradicted yourself above.  You talk about new signings but then say recruitment let us down big time this season.  As we know that our signings in January haven't been up to much, it seems fair to say that our league position now is despite that, which would seem to be a point for Wilder rather than against him, as he's improved us without being able to improve the squad.

Bottom line is that we're better off now than we would have been had Warnock continued in all likelihood.  If you start playing the 'we could have' game then of course you can say that we could have done just as well had Warnock been kept on, you can say we could have won all 29 remaining games if you like.  The question is how likely those things are, and the evidence tells you that it wasn't likely at all.

You've given me hope. I hope I don't regret this 😄

16 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

Love those words from Wilder, we need to set standards as a football club for too long we've let players run their contracts down and manager after manager left to work around players who aren't what we need. 

To be honest I was disappointed in them.  Attitude over ability is a moronic way to look at things in my view.  Watmore works his nuts off but he'll never be a big goal scorer.  His attitude isn't the issue, his ability is, and he's our best striker.  Therein lies the problem.

Not sure what to make of Wilders comments, I'd agree we need changes but we've also heard this before from managers about needing a total rebuild. 

A rebuild is something that takes time and money and we need to make sure we get it right otherwise we're back at square one. 

I'd love a manager to come out and say he thinks he can get more out of the players, rather than say we need to throw more money at things but I guess that's the modern way of deflecting blame from themselves to the players. 

20 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

Love those words from Wilder, we need to set standards as a football club for too long we've let players run their contracts down and manager after manager left to work around players who aren't what we need. 

Johnny Howson's had the best season of his Boro career but I hope we let him go, we need a proper holding midiielder with energy who can dictate the tempo for us. 

If players don't fit what we need move them on, the only player in that squad I have sympathy for is Payero hopefully Wilder keeps him around for pre season and gives him a chance. 

yeah I pretty much agree with this, as great as Howson's been, he feels a little too light-weight for that more defensive midfield position. I guess it depends if any other CM's go - Tav/Payero perhaps.. cos Howson would be well-suited to that role.

1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

To be honest I was disappointed in them.  Attitude over ability is a moronic way to look at things in my view.  Watmore works his nuts off but he'll never be a big goal scorer.  His attitude isn't the issue, his ability is, and he's our best striker.  Therein lies the problem.

The attitude over ability I took as him putting out his stall that he'd rather have players coming with an appetite and attitude to prove themselves rather than let's sign James Collins because he runs around alot! 

You look at that Sheff U squad and it was former PL players with things to prove and League 1 players out to prove they were PL quality.

It tells me he might be avoiding the crop of 'Championship proven' stuff we've seen before like Howson/Britt/Saville etc. 

Equally I could be wrong and he's going to sign 11 Watmores... 😢 

3 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Not sure what to make of Wilders comments, I'd agree we need changes but we've also heard this before from managers about needing a total rebuild. 

A rebuild is something that takes time and money and we need to make sure we get it right otherwise we're back at square one. 

I'd love a manager to come out and say he thinks he can get more out of the players, rather than say we need to throw more money at things but I guess that's the modern way of deflecting blame from themselves to the players. 

I think the issue is that we have a fair few players contracts up, 3 strikers on loan, and a couple of players probably on their way for transfer cash. This summer is gonna be massive tbh.

Way I see it a new GK is a must, 2 new first choice strikers, a new defensive midfielder, 1 or 2 CB's.. new RWB and LWB as either cover for Jones or to fully replace Bola as first choice. Then also probably plug the gaps of positions where we lose players through transfers

 

Just now, Jamie-H said:

The attitude over ability I took as him putting out his stall that he'd rather have players coming with an appetite and attitude to prove themselves rather than let's sign James Collins because he runs around alot! 

You look at that Sheff U squad and it was former PL players with things to prove and League 1 players out to prove they were PL quality.

It tells me he might be avoiding the crop of 'Championship proven' stuff we've seen before like Howson/Britt/Saville etc. 

Equally I could be wrong and he's going to sign 11 Watmores... 😢 

Yeah but attitude over ability can only ever take you so far.  If that was his way of thinking at Sheff Utd then it probably explains the difference between year one in the Premier League and year two.

Which players, I mean contracted players not the loan signings, do you think lacked appetite or the attitude to prove themselves this season?

1 minute ago, chickenlunch said:

I think the issue is that we have a fair few players contracts up, 3 strikers on loan, and a couple of players probably on their way for transfer cash. This summer is gonna be massive tbh.

Way I see it a new GK is a must, 2 new first choice strikers, a new defensive midfielder, 1 or 2 CB's.. new RWB and LWB as either cover for Jones or to fully replace Bola as first choice. Then also probably plug the gaps of positions where we lose players through transfers

 

The goal keeper thing should have been addressed in January and that's on Wilder, we hoped that the current crop would be good enough and they clearly weren't. 

Even a Premier league backup or young keeper would have been an upgrade. 

The striker situation has also been a collective failure between Scott, Warnock and Wilder. 

We need to do a lot better in the summer. 

10 minutes ago, DurhamRed said:

Wilder post match is like when Gibson came out and said next season we will smash the league kind off. What does attitude over ability mean more Connollys as he has bags of attitude and no ability 

If you're going to quote someone the please do it correctly!
I believe it was "we want to smash the league", there is a significant difference between that and "we will smash the league"

I think he means is that a lot of the current players do not have the correct attitude to succeed, that he believes that if they did then despite their lack of ability they wouldnt have lost the games that they did!