I mean, we're talking about a guy who selected Connolly in 13 of his first 16 games after he signed.  Now he's 5th choice.  It could well be that his attitude has disappointed Wilder but I'm struggling to see what he did so differently in those games than he's done recently.  So is Wilder looking for things to blame perhaps that aren't him when in reality he's made some major mistakes that have potentially cost us? 

For me it's actually simpler than that cos I think our issue this season was having Warnock for a third of the season, and being unable to add one striker in January to give us even a semi regular supply of goals.  If either of those things were different then I reckon we end up in the play offs.  I wouldn't question the attitude of the players, or certainly not most of them anyway, cos I see a reasonably hard working group who are probably a bit short, especially when it comes to goals.  Even today we started well enough but there's nothing at the end of it so we couldn't take advantage.  I think that inability to get ourselves ahead in some games has been a massive problem, not just this season either, going back a few years.  I don't feel that this style of play lends itself to having to come from behind in games, to me it's more about control, bit like under Karanka, and so we need to strike first as much as possible.

I am mystified by the attitude over ability comment.

Who is he referring to - the two strikers he brought in? 

if not and this is something he’s been holding back on why has he essentially picked the same 9 players every match? 

Seems like a “it’s not my fault” comment

I loved hearing that from Wilder. As someon said earlier it’s a little like Gibson and his smashing the league comment.

I think he’s finally saying what he thinks about some players, this surely is a reference to his two goalkeepers (who are rubbish) and his four strikers (who are rubbish - though I like Watmore). Get rid of them, get good money for a couple of players (Spence and….?). The fact that he seems to already have made inroads in terms of looking at/speaking to targets that he says are good players does excite me. gutted the season is over but fully recognising we have fallen short this season. 

4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I mean, we're talking about a guy who selected Connolly in 13 of his first 16 games after he signed.  Now he's 5th choice.  It could well be that his attitude has disappointed Wilder but I'm struggling to see what he did so differently in those games than he's done recently.  So is Wilder looking for things to blame perhaps that aren't him when in reality he's made some major mistakes that have potentially cost us? 

For me it's actually simpler than that cos I think our issue this season was having Warnock for a third of the season, and being unable to add one striker in January to give us even a semi regular supply of goals.  If either of those things were different then I reckon we end up in the play offs.  I wouldn't question the attitude of the players, or certainly not most of them anyway, cos I see a reasonably hard working group who are probably a bit short, especially when it comes to goals.  Even today we started well enough but there's nothing at the end of it so we couldn't take advantage.  I think that inability to get ourselves ahead in some games has been a massive problem, not just this season either, going back a few years.  I don't feel that this style of play lends itself to having to come from behind in games, to me it's more about control, bit like under Karanka, and so we need to strike first as much as possible.

I think Wilder’s Achilles heal is his weakness in spotting and implementing strikers into a team/club. Afterall, Sheffield Utd have had to turn to the old warhorse Billy Sharp time and time again and not strikers he bought

Edited May 7, 20224 yr by Robin Johnson

18 minutes ago, Robin Johnson said:

Probably not. But since Spurs there’s been a number of performances that were, frankly, exceptionally poor. 
 

And I would put it to you, if you can’t get yourself up for a massive game against a Champions League chasing team you shouldn’t be playing the game

I'm sure the opposition did play a part in that but before Spurs there were some poor performances as well, now if we're saying that's down to bad attitude then are we saying the good performances were in spite of that attitude, and just down to his managerial ability?  After Spurs I can only see Sheff Utd and the game today that were exceptionally poor performances.  We were disappointing against Hull but should have won, and disappointing against Huddersfield as well in fairness.  Other than that we only lost to Fulham, and again we should have gotten something out of that.

To me, you win and lose as a team, that team includes the coaches, recruitment staff etc.  I'm not a fan of managers who starting blaming the players when you have some poor results.  They're the same players they were two months ago when you had good results.  Also, I'm a bit confused as to why the players would suddenly not be bothered when there is a possibility of promotion, wouldn't that provide similar motivation to a big game in the cup against Spurs.  At times we were able to play up to a certain level that got us results - like against Spurs but at other times we couldn't reach that level - like against Chelsea.  I'm not sure that's simply down to attitude.

 

Edited May 7, 20224 yr by Changing Times

53 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Yeah but attitude over ability can only ever take you so far.  If that was his way of thinking at Sheff Utd then it probably explains the difference between year one in the Premier League and year two.

Which players, I mean contracted players not the loan signings, do you think lacked appetite or the attitude to prove themselves this season?

I agree on the quality point, we have areas of quality in our XI but outside of the back three and a couple in midfield I think you'd say we're probably short of quality in 5 positions in our starting lineup if we're talking top two as the aim. 

Lumley seemed far too comfortable for me we handed him a contract and he knew he had the no.1 jersey to himself, unlike his time at QPR. His reaction after every mistake was to pretend to the crowd like it didn't happen, he didn't play the ball out to open defenders he preferred to launch it - the fact that Daniels was short ball first when he came in suggests that Lumley wasn't doing what was been asked by Wilder when he was playing - there was a few occasions where Wilder and Lumley would have a shouting exchange during a game after a 50 yard Lumley boot out into the crowd when he had an open man 10 feet to his side. 

Hall had a nightmare of a season under both managers but I don't buy the idea he couldn't fit the system, he had an eye for a pass at QPR. Basham's not got any pace but he adapted fine to 'Wilderball' I certainly question Hall's appetite and attitude to the point where cancer survivor Sol Bamba was our main covering CB - who did well by the way but if I was Grant Hall on the wages he's on I would be doing everything possible to get in our XI. Instead he threw his arms up and seems to have sat at home and put his feet up because the new manager 'didn't fancy him'. I don't want players like that at the football club. 

Serious questions need to be asked to Kieran Scott about JLS, Sporar, Balogun and Connolly - how can a football club have four loan signings flop as badly as they did? 

Wilder's comments about "attitude over ability and players "dictating things to him" were very interesting. I'm assuming these surprising departures are linked to Wilder's comments the other day about having a checklist for what he wants his teams to have. I'm taking his comments to mean that certain first team players have fundamental weaknesses, but he's been unable to replace them due to lacking the strength in depth.

I might be completely wrong but my money is on Wilder aiming them comments at Fry. Especially as he said it would surprise people so clearly can't be the obvious likes of just Balogun or Connolly who have barely played recently. Selling Fry will be especially attractive to Scott and Wilder as he'll raise a significant fee that we can reinvest into the squad. While he's very good on the ball and has performed incredibly well for most of this season, I think Wilder would much prefer a CB that has strong leadership qualities and is commanding in set pieces in both boxes. Under Karanka our defensive unit was incredibly vocal and passionate about clean sheets. There's a meekness about tour current defensive unit so it wouldn't surprise me if that really concerns Wilder - especially given our poor away record this season of 6 wins, 8 draws and 9 defeats in the league.

I think out of the players whose contracts expire soon, there's only Howson who it seems like Wilder wants to sign on for next season. Once the out of contract players leave there will clear some significant room in the wage bill. So that's Peltier, Bamba, Taylor, Lea-Siliki, Sporar, Balogun and Connolly. Moving out the contracted deadwood will be a bit more difficult. That's the likes of Lumley, Daniels, Fisher, Hall, Ameobi, Ikpeazu and Akpom. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Bola and Payero moved out either, especially on loan.

The way I see our team next year is that we need a GK that's far more comfortable on the ball and sweeping through balls up (Cooper), a vocal commanding central CB, a left-footed LCB to step out with the ball (Pederson, Naismith, Simpson etc), a LWB that is far more of a natural attacking threat (Giles, Brady etc), and the strikers having more physical presence about them (Clarke-Harris, Riis etc). Plus more depth in most areas, especially a good quality DM to challenge Howson for the first team spot. 

Edited May 7, 20224 yr by p_mards

No one sees the players train day in day out. Wilder does. Perhaps there are players with attitude problems. Perhaps not. Maybe he’s referring to a winning mentality attitude rather then the ‘bad egg’ type of attitude. 

Wouldn’t really read to much into it either way, what will be will be. 

9 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

No one sees the players train day in day out. Wilder does. Perhaps there are players with attitude problems. Perhaps not. Maybe he’s referring to a winning mentality attitude rather then the ‘bad egg’ type of attitude. 

Wouldn’t really read to much into it either way, what will be will be. 

I was strange how little Balogun was played when he came back from England duties where he'd scored 3 goals, it can come down to attitude, you don't know what goes on or what's said behind closed doors.

My main concern with Wilder is having 3 strikers on the bench who play the same way as the 2 on the pitch every match, giving a max of one midfielder on the bench to bring on to change things up. Which he never does. I personally think the midfield needs a shake up.

Think Bola will be sold.

2 hours ago, Duvel said:

Good point, I don't think there's been an attitude problem at all. Warnock described them as a good set of lads when he normally would be more likely to throw them under the bus after his sacking. 

I don't think there's been an attitude problem at all, the poor run of form has been the result of us lacking quality and a bit of tactical nous to break teams down. 

Talking about attitude now feels like a deflection exercise. 

My understanding when he talks about attitude isn't about lack of effort or players being bad eggs in the dressing room.

I think he means attitude in terms of leaders. People who stand up and be counted when things aren't going our way - whether that's leading by example through bravery on the ball, or verbally organising teammates. 

He's said they're a lovely group of lads - but quiet. Our biggest characters aren't really in the side- Bamba, Taylor, Peltier. 

I think there's something in that. Too many players shrink and hide when things start going wrong. And I don't just mean pointing and bellowing - but knowing when to take the sting out a game and get a bit of control back. Maddo talks about it a lot too. 

Thinking back to our promotion side... Leadbitter, Friend, Gibson, Ayala, Clayts, Dimi, Nugent etc... Not the most talented players ever, but all had that winning mentality and hunger for clean sheets. Guys you'd want by your side when shi* hits the fan. 

Edited May 7, 20224 yr by SouthernSmoggie

14 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Think Bola will be sold.

Me too. His injury prone and hasn't progressed. Doesn't offer enough for LWB. I feel as though he'd be fine as backup.

This "attitude/ability" thing sounds almost like Pulis and his Aard Men.

I suspect that the surprises may be Jones, Bola, McNair, Fry and Tav. I hope that there isn't a twist in his surprise and he brings Connolly back for his attitude! There are others that wouldn't be missed, in fact the reality is that there were a quite a few who weren't missed at all during their absence.

Wilder had the fans eating out of his hand and walking on water in the eyes of many not long ago. I can't speak for others but the Burnley affair rubbed me up the wrong way as well as the journalists who prodded him. He talks about Leadership, well he should realise that in his capacity as the Manager of MFC he is one of the most influential Leaders at the Club. What he does and says carries weight and sets the tone.

If Connolly as an example had said something stupid or handled something badly not many would be surprised, even Woodgate wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but Wilder conducted himself really poorly and in a manner falling far short of true Leadership. We needed a clear and unequivocal "This Manager is not for turning", not too much to expect from a Leader in any walk of life. Our end of season run-in seemed to be spluttering for whatever reason and the timing of his ill advised response may just be coincidental but I have an uncomfortable feeling because of it. I guess the word is trust and like a few previous Managers I now have trust issues with him.

His football was initially far better to watch than Warnock's and the improvement in results were welcome but his seeming lack of acceptance that maybe Plan A isn't the be all and end all in all situations raises a huge question mark. His "denial" at least to himself that perhaps he had dropped one with Connolly and Balogun coincided with us starting to look desperate in too many games, resorting to hoofing it to two diminutive Strikers. Ironically one of his preferred pairing had attitude but limited ability whilst the other had ability but it appears for the last few games at least perhaps lacking attitude?

The long term plan for the Club and the style of football we play, the scouting and recruitment and Wilder himself has left me with far more question than I had back in January. I'm OK if he stays but equally I'm OK if he goes, actions speaks louder than words but for me his words lately have been poorly chosen and I'm less than convinced by some actions out on the pitch which ultimately is where it really matters.

Wilder has made this comment

“I think Jonny Howson was one player I can rely on from a mentality point of view and today he looked at home and comfortable in the game. He was a leader today and by far our best performer.”

I think it’s official that I don’t watch the same thing as Wilder.