2 hours ago, Redcar Rioja said:

This "attitude/ability" thing sounds almost like Pulis and his Aard Men.

I suspect that the surprises may be Jones, Bola, McNair, Fry and Tav. I hope that there isn't a twist in his surprise and he brings Connolly back for his attitude! There are others that wouldn't be missed, in fact the reality is that there were a quite a few who weren't missed at all during their absence.

Wilder had the fans eating out of his hand and walking on water in the eyes of many not long ago. I can't speak for others but the Burnley affair rubbed me up the wrong way as well as the journalists who prodded him. He talks about Leadership, well he should realise that in his capacity as the Manager of MFC he is one of the most influential Leaders at the Club. What he does and says carries weight and sets the tone.

If Connolly as an example had said something stupid or handled something badly not many would be surprised, even Woodgate wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but Wilder conducted himself really poorly and in a manner falling far short of true Leadership. We needed a clear and unequivocal "This Manager is not for turning", not too much to expect from a Leader in any walk of life. Our end of season run-in seemed to be spluttering for whatever reason and the timing of his ill advised response may just be coincidental but I have an uncomfortable feeling because of it. I guess the word is trust and like a few previous Managers I now have trust issues with him.

His football was initially far better to watch than Warnock's and the improvement in results were welcome but his seeming lack of acceptance that maybe Plan A isn't the be all and end all in all situations raises a huge question mark. His "denial" at least to himself that perhaps he had dropped one with Connolly and Balogun coincided with us starting to look desperate in too many games, resorting to hoofing it to two diminutive Strikers. Ironically one of his preferred pairing had attitude but limited ability whilst the other had ability but it appears for the last few games at least perhaps lacking attitude?

The long term plan for the Club and the style of football we play, the scouting and recruitment and Wilder himself has left me with far more question than I had back in January. I'm OK if he stays but equally I'm OK if he goes, actions speaks louder than words but for me his words lately have been poorly chosen and I'm less than convinced by some actions out on the pitch which ultimately is where it really matters.

I don't really agree with where you're going on the Wilder stuff mate but I can totally appreciate how the Burnley situation has affected yours and anyone's trust in the man. He has to prove he's as committed to this club as he can be with his actions, as you say, and until he does, his words (or lack thereof at times) will give some people a reason to beat this man up at times when he needs a bit more backing.

I'm willing to put my faith into him and Scott to sort this out, they get my backing for this summer and beyond and to be honest, it feels like the fans in general feel the same way. Certainly the die hards were very quick to start singing his name after the penalty went in.

But to be fair, I've said the same for plenty of managers who have pointed fingers at things out of their control; that kind of blame only works for so long. Monk did it, Pulis did it, Warnock did it and they never looked at themselves as the potential problem.

This summer is massive for him, he really has put himself and his reputation on the line to be the man to sort this out. To be the man who takes us 'from possibility to probability'. I said from the moment he came in that he can miss out on the playoffs and I'll be fine with it as I want to see this manager given a full pre-season and I think there are parts of this season that give me plenty of reason to believe he's the right man for the job with all the tools he feels he needs to be capable of doing it.

Ironically I feel like apart from the Burnley stuff, the main reason he's getting pelters is that he actually did so well when he first came in, particularly at home and with the cup run as well, that it made people think him not reaching the playoffs is a failure and has created this huge amount of scrutiny on his tactical set-up and all that. He set that stall up for himself of course, he made that rod for his own back as well by setting those short-term expectations but I don't think he'd apologise for that or do that part any differently, the man clearly harbours ambitions of being in the Prem ASAP.

Oh it’ll be fine, go to bed boys.  😴

15 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Wilders PPG would have us sitting 5th over the full season. He inherited Warnocks squad and a playing style that was the opposite of what he likes. 

What would be deemed ‘good enough’ for you? Were you going to be unhappy with any new manager coming in that didn’t achieve playoffs? 

The last dozen games we have averaged 1.25 points a game which is bang average.

 I never wanted him in the first place but thought he talked a good talk initially but have become more and more dissatisfied with him as the season has gone on.  He seems to be following in the Pulis/Warnock vein where none of what happens is his fault.
 

As anyone that knows me will testify I have always wanted Mogga back , but only with money to spend as he had nowt first time. Not going to happen but do you think he would have signed Balogun and Connolly?

As for the squad we had when he took over , plus an imminent window to strengthen, then yes I would have expected the playoffs as we weren’t that far off when he joined.

Time will tell if he is actually that good but I am far from convinced 

 

15 minutes ago, TheJew said:

Mogga signed some great players for next to nothing.

I'd still have Karanka back.

I think Granada are unbeaten since he went there and won 6-2 today to move out of bottom 3 in La Liga

4 minutes ago, Boro 86 said:

I think Granada are unbeaten since he went there and won 6-2 today to move out of bottom 3 in La Liga

Good for him. I still wouldn't have him back but I do hope he does well over there.

1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

Pointing this exact comment out as a thing to criticise Wilder about after the way you've compared the comments people make between Warnock and Wilder is quite mad, to me.

The only difference in that to me is that Howson was the one player who actually did look like he was trying to get on the ball and drive the game for us. It wasn't a 10/10 performance, not by a long shot but we had a fair few there today who mentally checked out of the game after about 20 minutes.

Isaiah was one of them. Absolute shell of a player he was

For years we’ve been talking on this message board about building for the long term, getting in a DoF, following the Brentford model. Then after a season of Scott and half of Wilder people are calling for a change! It’s ridiculous. Brentford took years to get promoted yet many on here were begging for us to model ourselves on them. 
Wilder has some arrogance about him and is totally backing himself to get this club back into the PL. I think he has faults and has made mistakes, but I’m 100% happier with him in charge building for the long term than I was the last 3 managers. I’m excited for next season already. 

1 hour ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Unreal.

Like an Anthony Joshua fight before he lost 😂

I'll stop short of calling for Wilders head but there's no way he should be backed with a large amount of money in next summers window. 

Hes been here around 5.5 month so broken up into 3. 2 monthlyish periods in his time here his league record is.

Nov 20th / Jan 15th - 9 games, 20 points, avg 2.22 ppg.  

Jan 24th / Mar 15th - 11 games, 14 points, avg 1.27 ppg. 

Mar 19th / May 7th - 9 games, 11 points, avg 1.22 ppg. 

Now I'm sorry but that isn't good enough since 2021 and the new manager bounce ended I don't think he has been better than warnock he's been about on par in 2022. The football although more intent is shown still lacks any real imagination and flair and the tactics make the team look vulnerable. 

Wilder should be made to prove he can make some astute signings and get his tactics working more effectively next season before we start throwing money at him because for me he still has alot to prove in all aspect of his management of the club. I certainly wouldn't be giving him much more than 10mil to spend even with the sale of some of our prize assets. 

I made the point half way through this thread of his tactics meaning we will be bringing in more specialised players as he has certain roles in the team not many other clubs utilise so we could end up in a monk type situation of being loaded with players to play a faulty system who we can't get rid of and the windfall we likely won't see again wasted and more rebuilds necessary. 

If we keep wilder we should be looking at cheap buys and loans... he's worked under that remit before and there's no reason why he can't again until he proves that he can move this club forward because at the moment he's in reverse.

 

Edited May 7, 20223 yr by Foxtrot Oscar Colin

2 minutes ago, Skinemrippers said:

For years we’ve been talking on this message board about building for the long term, getting in a DoF, following the Brentford model. Then after a season of Scott and half of Wilder people are calling for a change! It’s ridiculous. Brentford took years to get promoted yet many on here were begging for us to model ourselves on them. 
Wilder has some arrogance about him and is totally backing himself to get this club back into the PL. I think he has faults and has made mistakes, but I’m 100% happier with him in charge building for the long term than I was the last 3 managers. I’m excited for next season already. 

I think the concerns are exactly that, we aren't following the Brentford model or even the Norwich model come to that it's the Wilder model and therein lies the causes for concern. It's the tail wagging the Dog.

The Club is moulding itself to fit a particular Manager which is the exact opposite surely of what the "model" plan was supposed to be and indeed just leading to more of the same mistakes often repeated in the past. The idea of the Model is to be able to recruit follow on Managers that play to the same style and system and so that we don't have more flip flopping from one style to another along with a squad that are not fit for the new Manager's style.

Wilder was available and we probably understandably knee jerked and went for him but to me he wasn't the type of Manager or direction that fitted any Model it was just an instinctive gamble that he could repeat his success here and that we could bypass the "model" plan. It may still work if the Club back him and get the right Players in to play his system but therein for me is the contradiction in terms.

some very pessimistic people on here it seems

20 minutes ago, Skinemrippers said:

For years we’ve been talking on this message board about building for the long term, getting in a DoF, following the Brentford model. Then after a season of Scott and half of Wilder people are calling for a change! It’s ridiculous. Brentford took years to get promoted yet many on here were begging for us to model ourselves on them. 
Wilder has some arrogance about him and is totally backing himself to get this club back into the PL. I think he has faults and has made mistakes, but I’m 100% happier with him in charge building for the long term than I was the last 3 managers. I’m excited for next season already. 

Totally agree with you on the DOF model but I dont think that Scott is really that as far as dictating how we are going play and what type of players we will look to buy under Wilder. I honestly don't think 532 overlapping cbs is a tactic you can build your club ethos on. Scott at the moment seems to be head of recruitment and that's it and I dont even know if he has the final say over Wilder on that. 

I also made the point earlier that someone above the manager needs to decide how we are going to to look as a football club for example we will play with wingers who can dribble well and we want athletic strong players through the middle etc etc then you can buy players that suit what your wanting to achieve and hire managers that can buy into it and deliver tactics to suit. 

I would actually love mogga to come in as a director of football I think his Knowledge of players and the way he wants to see the game played is perfect for the role. I just think he falls short as a manager for some reason to get teams up but he would be great dictating things from the backroom. 

Feel very optimistic for next season after listening to Wilder's interview

Cant help but wonder who he means when he says they haven't been putting in 100% but hes still been playing them out of necessity 

 

3 hours ago, Foxtrot Oscar Colin said:

Totally agree with you on the DOF model but I dont think that Scott is really that as far as dictating how we are going play and what type of players we will look to buy under Wilder. I honestly don't think 532 overlapping cbs is a tactic you can build your club ethos on. Scott at the moment seems to be head of recruitment and that's it and I dont even know if he has the final say over Wilder on that. 

I also made the point earlier that someone above the manager needs to decide how we are going to to look as a football club for example we will play with wingers who can dribble well and we want athletic strong players through the middle etc etc then you can buy players that suit what your wanting to achieve and hire managers that can buy into it and deliver tactics to suit. 

I would actually love mogga to come in as a director of football I think his Knowledge of players and the way he wants to see the game played is perfect for the role. I just think he falls short as a manager for some reason to get teams up but he would be great dictating things from the backroom. 

It certainly looks like it’s the Wilder model rather than the DOF model, but Scott hired Wilder. 3-5-2 is a very popular modern formation, who’s to say it’s not how Scott wants to play and his future long term vision. He certainly seems focussed on youth.  Let’s see the players he brings in next season before we decide that it’s all Wilder and nothing to do with Scott. 
 

Maybe something for the supporters group to ask in their Q&A session. 

That's McNair suspended for the first game of next season, assuming he's not sold.