Preston vs Boro 4-1 (Tavernier)

[Robin Johnson 385]

4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

The more he actually says the less I think he is sadly.  I suppose we've got to see what happens in the summer though.  Right now he's annoyed and he's saying what he's saying I think to keep the fans onside.  I would hope that the various people at the club are thinking in broader terms than signing people who will run through brick walls though.  

Alternatively he feels as the season has ended he can relay his true feelings…

[Downsouth 3,296]

8 minutes ago, Robin Johnson said:

Regarding attitude look how far that and determination has taken Luton. Full of free transfers they have shown a collective spirit can go a long way in the Championship.

Qualities we seem to lack

Younger Manager willing to adapt

[Changing Times 6,999]

4 minutes ago, Robin Johnson said:

Alternatively he feels as the season has ended he can relay his true feelings…

Do you think they were his true feelings when we were winning however many in a row at home, and knocking out Spurs?  

[JonnyMFC 439]

31 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

So with a squad full of players without the correct attitude to succeed, and with a lack of ability, we finished with 70 points this season, and knocked two Premier League clubs out of the FA Cup?  Nothing about that seems a bit off to you?

No, but with the correct attitude and more ability then there is a fair chance that we would have finished higher

[Robin Johnson 385]

4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Do you think they were his true feelings when we were winning however many in a row at home, and knocking out Spurs?  

Probably not. But since Spurs there’s been a number of performances that were, frankly, exceptionally poor. 
 

And I would put it to you, if you can’t get yourself up for a massive game against a Champions League chasing team you shouldn’t be playing the game

[Changing Times 6,999]

I mean, we're talking about a guy who selected Connolly in 13 of his first 16 games after he signed.  Now he's 5th choice.  It could well be that his attitude has disappointed Wilder but I'm struggling to see what he did so differently in those games than he's done recently.  So is Wilder looking for things to blame perhaps that aren't him when in reality he's made some major mistakes that have potentially cost us? 

For me it's actually simpler than that cos I think our issue this season was having Warnock for a third of the season, and being unable to add one striker in January to give us even a semi regular supply of goals.  If either of those things were different then I reckon we end up in the play offs.  I wouldn't question the attitude of the players, or certainly not most of them anyway, cos I see a reasonably hard working group who are probably a bit short, especially when it comes to goals.  Even today we started well enough but there's nothing at the end of it so we couldn't take advantage.  I think that inability to get ourselves ahead in some games has been a massive problem, not just this season either, going back a few years.  I don't feel that this style of play lends itself to having to come from behind in games, to me it's more about control, bit like under Karanka, and so we need to strike first as much as possible.

[GrimsbyBoro 1,402]

I am mystified by the attitude over ability comment.

Who is he referring to - the two strikers he brought in? 

if not and this is something he’s been holding back on why has he essentially picked the same 9 players every match? 

Seems like a “it’s not my fault” comment

[Whoppy 259]

I loved hearing that from Wilder. As someon said earlier it’s a little like Gibson and his smashing the league comment.

I think he’s finally saying what he thinks about some players, this surely is a reference to his two goalkeepers (who are rubbish) and his four strikers (who are rubbish - though I like Watmore). Get rid of them, get good money for a couple of players (Spence and….?). The fact that he seems to already have made inroads in terms of looking at/speaking to targets that he says are good players does excite me. gutted the season is over but fully recognising we have fallen short this season. 

[Robin Johnson 385]

4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I mean, we're talking about a guy who selected Connolly in 13 of his first 16 games after he signed.  Now he's 5th choice.  It could well be that his attitude has disappointed Wilder but I'm struggling to see what he did so differently in those games than he's done recently.  So is Wilder looking for things to blame perhaps that aren't him when in reality he's made some major mistakes that have potentially cost us? 

For me it's actually simpler than that cos I think our issue this season was having Warnock for a third of the season, and being unable to add one striker in January to give us even a semi regular supply of goals.  If either of those things were different then I reckon we end up in the play offs.  I wouldn't question the attitude of the players, or certainly not most of them anyway, cos I see a reasonably hard working group who are probably a bit short, especially when it comes to goals.  Even today we started well enough but there's nothing at the end of it so we couldn't take advantage.  I think that inability to get ourselves ahead in some games has been a massive problem, not just this season either, going back a few years.  I don't feel that this style of play lends itself to having to come from behind in games, to me it's more about control, bit like under Karanka, and so we need to strike first as much as possible.

I think Wilder’s Achilles heal is his weakness in spotting and implementing strikers into a team/club. Afterall, Sheffield Utd have had to turn to the old warhorse Billy Sharp time and time again and not strikers he bought

[Changing Times 6,999]

18 minutes ago, Robin Johnson said:

Probably not. But since Spurs there’s been a number of performances that were, frankly, exceptionally poor. 
 

And I would put it to you, if you can’t get yourself up for a massive game against a Champions League chasing team you shouldn’t be playing the game

I'm sure the opposition did play a part in that but before Spurs there were some poor performances as well, now if we're saying that's down to bad attitude then are we saying the good performances were in spite of that attitude, and just down to his managerial ability?  After Spurs I can only see Sheff Utd and the game today that were exceptionally poor performances.  We were disappointing against Hull but should have won, and disappointing against Huddersfield as well in fairness.  Other than that we only lost to Fulham, and again we should have gotten something out of that.

To me, you win and lose as a team, that team includes the coaches, recruitment staff etc.  I'm not a fan of managers who starting blaming the players when you have some poor results.  They're the same players they were two months ago when you had good results.  Also, I'm a bit confused as to why the players would suddenly not be bothered when there is a possibility of promotion, wouldn't that provide similar motivation to a big game in the cup against Spurs.  At times we were able to play up to a certain level that got us results - like against Spurs but at other times we couldn't reach that level - like against Chelsea.  I'm not sure that's simply down to attitude.

 

[Jamie-H 1,056]

53 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Yeah but attitude over ability can only ever take you so far.  If that was his way of thinking at Sheff Utd then it probably explains the difference between year one in the Premier League and year two.

Which players, I mean contracted players not the loan signings, do you think lacked appetite or the attitude to prove themselves this season?

I agree on the quality point, we have areas of quality in our XI but outside of the back three and a couple in midfield I think you'd say we're probably short of quality in 5 positions in our starting lineup if we're talking top two as the aim. 

Lumley seemed far too comfortable for me we handed him a contract and he knew he had the no.1 jersey to himself, unlike his time at QPR. His reaction after every mistake was to pretend to the crowd like it didn't happen, he didn't play the ball out to open defenders he preferred to launch it - the fact that Daniels was short ball first when he came in suggests that Lumley wasn't doing what was been asked by Wilder when he was playing - there was a few occasions where Wilder and Lumley would have a shouting exchange during a game after a 50 yard Lumley boot out into the crowd when he had an open man 10 feet to his side. 

Hall had a nightmare of a season under both managers but I don't buy the idea he couldn't fit the system, he had an eye for a pass at QPR. Basham's not got any pace but he adapted fine to 'Wilderball' I certainly question Hall's appetite and attitude to the point where cancer survivor Sol Bamba was our main covering CB - who did well by the way but if I was Grant Hall on the wages he's on I would be doing everything possible to get in our XI. Instead he threw his arms up and seems to have sat at home and put his feet up because the new manager 'didn't fancy him'. I don't want players like that at the football club. 

Serious questions need to be asked to Kieran Scott about JLS, Sporar, Balogun and Connolly - how can a football club have four loan signings flop as badly as they did? 

[p_mards 901]

Wilder's comments about "attitude over ability and players "dictating things to him" were very interesting. I'm assuming these surprising departures are linked to Wilder's comments the other day about having a checklist for what he wants his teams to have. I'm taking his comments to mean that certain first team players have fundamental weaknesses, but he's been unable to replace them due to lacking the strength in depth.

I might be completely wrong but my money is on Wilder aiming them comments at Fry. Especially as he said it would surprise people so clearly can't be the obvious likes of just Balogun or Connolly who have barely played recently. Selling Fry will be especially attractive to Scott and Wilder as he'll raise a significant fee that we can reinvest into the squad. While he's very good on the ball and has performed incredibly well for most of this season, I think Wilder would much prefer a CB that has strong leadership qualities and is commanding in set pieces in both boxes. Under Karanka our defensive unit was incredibly vocal and passionate about clean sheets. There's a meekness about tour current defensive unit so it wouldn't surprise me if that really concerns Wilder - especially given our poor away record this season of 6 wins, 8 draws and 9 defeats in the league.

I think out of the players whose contracts expire soon, there's only Howson who it seems like Wilder wants to sign on for next season. Once the out of contract players leave there will clear some significant room in the wage bill. So that's Peltier, Bamba, Taylor, Lea-Siliki, Sporar, Balogun and Connolly. Moving out the contracted deadwood will be a bit more difficult. That's the likes of Lumley, Daniels, Fisher, Hall, Ameobi, Ikpeazu and Akpom. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Bola and Payero moved out either, especially on loan.

The way I see our team next year is that we need a GK that's far more comfortable on the ball and sweeping through balls up (Cooper), a vocal commanding central CB, a left-footed LCB to step out with the ball (Pederson, Naismith, Simpson etc), a LWB that is far more of a natural attacking threat (Giles, Brady etc), and the strikers having more physical presence about them (Clarke-Harris, Riis etc). Plus more depth in most areas, especially a good quality DM to challenge Howson for the first team spot. 

Edited May 7 by p_mards

[BoroSmoggie 1,276]

No one sees the players train day in day out. Wilder does. Perhaps there are players with attitude problems. Perhaps not. Maybe he’s referring to a winning mentality attitude rather then the ‘bad egg’ type of attitude. 

Wouldn’t really read to much into it either way, what will be will be. 

[Rioch's Braves 646]

9 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

No one sees the players train day in day out. Wilder does. Perhaps there are players with attitude problems. Perhaps not. Maybe he’s referring to a winning mentality attitude rather then the ‘bad egg’ type of attitude. 

Wouldn’t really read to much into it either way, what will be will be. 

I was strange how little Balogun was played when he came back from England duties where he'd scored 3 goals, it can come down to attitude, you don't know what goes on or what's said behind closed doors.

[Skinemrippers 486]

My main concern with Wilder is having 3 strikers on the bench who play the same way as the 2 on the pitch every match, giving a max of one midfielder on the bench to bring on to change things up. Which he never does. I personally think the midfield needs a shake up.