Rate The Signings: Boyd Munce

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1 minute ago, Blanco said:

You are usually far more subtle 😀

Sometimes I feel like my efforts just aren't appreciated 😢

[Bruce 1,559]

Played 4 times for the U23s and twice for the seniors. Bit of an odd one. Seems to be in a limbo state of being on standby for the senior team but only on the bench twice. Bit like recalling Sol Brynn who only played five games for the U23s after recall. Looks like Wilder is pretty brutal. He seems to keep a small number of players around who he has zero interest in developing but might need if there is a massive injury crisis. As they're under 23 he doesn't need to register them.  Or else he decided once he had seen them on the training pitch that they weren't what he wanted.

 

[Rob 4,504]

4 minutes ago, Bruce said:

Played 4 times for the U23s and twice for the seniors. Bit of an odd one. Seems to be in a limbo state of being on standby for the senior team but only on the bench twice. Bit like recalling Sol Brynn who only played five games for the U23s after recall. Looks like Wilder is pretty brutal. He seems to keep a small number of players around who he has zero interest in developing but might need if there is a massive injury crisis. As they're under 23 he doesn't need to register them.  Or else he decided once he had seen them on the training pitch that they weren't what he wanted.

 

he may well be developing them working and training with the first team? I know he said this about coburn that he thought this would be better than putting him out on loan for someone else. 

saw this said before:

“But what about being involved in training every day with players that are playing at a high tempo, learning from the likes of Lee Peltier and Sol Bamba and us having the opportunity to coach young boys like Josh on how we want them to play.

“There might be a time where we think, it might be the time to send young Josh out on loan after having this six months to work closely with us, developing him as the type of player we want. We do have time to work one-to-one with him sometimes, analysing clips and stuff like that.

“So maybe after that six months we might reassess and think a loan move is good for him before he then comes back and jumps straight back in. Who knows on that front.

“But I think he can become a better player being here in the next six months and we all hope he becomes the striker we know he can.”

I imagine anyone not getting a crack in the u23s is getting the same treatment, don't see him as the sort of manager to carry passengers he has no interest in, i think they would be out on loan or simply out permantley. 

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13 minutes ago, Bruce said:

Played 4 times for the U23s and twice for the seniors. Bit of an odd one. Seems to be in a limbo state of being on standby for the senior team but only on the bench twice. Bit like recalling Sol Brynn who only played five games for the U23s after recall. Looks like Wilder is pretty brutal. He seems to keep a small number of players around who he has zero interest in developing but might need if there is a massive injury crisis. As they're under 23 he doesn't need to register them.  Or else he decided once he had seen them on the training pitch that they weren't what he wanted.

 

So he hasn't even been a good signing for the Under 23's then based on that.

[Bruce 1,559]

13 minutes ago, Rob said:

he may well be developing them working and training with the first team? I know he said this about coburn that he thought this would be better than putting him out on loan for someone else. 

That's the positive spin and it might be true. Then again there were a few matches where he put JLS on the bench instead of Boyd-Munce. Given that JLS was worse than useless in the one match he played for Wilder and they're both left-footed midfielders then he must rate Boyd-Munce very badly. Likewise, when he dropped Lumley why put him on the bench unless he thinks he's better than Brynn? If so, what does that say about Brynn?

Maybe Wilder thinks that 6 months on the training ground and travelling in the bus is better than playing for the U23s or on loan and that the players will develop in that time. Certainly seems to be some indication that Wilder really doesn't rate many of the current crop of U23s or maybe he doesn't rate U23 matches as a way to develop young players.

 

[GrimsbyBoro 1,968]

56 minutes ago, Blanco said:

Ah you’re after ruining the Olusanya thread now that we all know what you are going to vote 🙄

You can’t just go around ruining everything that people are looking forward to 🤷‍♂️

The Olusanya and Ameobi ones will be firey affairs I can feel it now.

[Changing Times 12,347]

7 minutes ago, Bruce said:

Maybe Wilder thinks that 6 months on the training ground and travelling in the bus is better than playing for the U23s or on loan and that the players will develop in that time. Certainly seems to be some indication that Wilder really doesn't rate many of the current crop of U23s or maybe he doesn't rate U23 matches as a way to develop young players.

Our loan signings in January were a bit weird then in that case.

[Rob 4,504]

16 hours ago, Bruce said:

That's the positive spin and it might be true. Then again there were a few matches where he put JLS on the bench instead of Boyd-Munce. Given that JLS was worse than useless in the one match he played for Wilder and they're both left-footed midfielders then he must rate Boyd-Munce very badly. Likewise, when he dropped Lumley why put him on the bench unless he thinks he's better than Brynn? If so, what does that say about Brynn?

Maybe Wilder thinks that 6 months on the training ground and travelling in the bus is better than playing for the U23s or on loan and that the players will develop in that time. Certainly seems to be some indication that Wilder really doesn't rate many of the current crop of U23s or maybe he doesn't rate U23 matches as a way to develop young players.

 

I don't think its clear he don't rate all the u23s, very pessimistic way of looking at it just because he isn't giving any of them a game all the time.

Of course first choice keeper goes on the bench when he is dropped for second choice, common sense to me. I don't think that really says loads about Brynns prospects- he just probs is not ready for the championship yet but if both choices were injured he needs to be up to speed with the squad and is odds on (well hopefully not lol) learning from the other keepers at the same time lol (if that is possible lol - but that would usually be the idea of having a young lad as 3rd choice).

Lumley looked really bad in a high percentage of his goals, but his goals conceded per game ratio wasn't too bad and that's what I think kept him in the team for so long until wilder had enough with the mistakes. If you could iron them out of him (which I think as a manager/coach you would think you could improve his decision making with a bit of work - but clearly he couldn't in half a season lol) then you could end up with a hard keeper to beat based on him still only conceding something like 34 in 39 games if I remember rightly. Amazing to think how bad some of the goals were and he still only let 34 in.

But Brynn is unknown to the championship, and I think its important to protect the youngsters from positions where they may take a big knock confidence wise if threw in at crucial times and wasn't upto speed, can leave the fans on their back when they only a few games into their first team career. 

I'm guessing JLS got the nod as he is a more senior player with more experience. They see them every day in training so he odds on knows if he ready for the run in or not. Just because he has them training and working with the first team does not mean they are ready, but maybe he see's them as potentially ready in a year or two. Like u see people called up to train with international squads who are too young and not getting called up for a few years, but its all part of the experience on integrating them into your first team so they don't have to deal with being the new guy as well as learning how to play for the team. I'd say even though JLS got the nod that boyd-munce is either very much in his plans for one day and if not he will probs be shipped out pretty quickly after he's had 6 months with him to see what he is made of. I wouldn't argue that I thought JLS was *** 

I doubt he has just dismissed everyone in the u23s as well, he will probs know them inside out I reckon and keep tabs on them all, just because he isn't playing them does not mean he isn't interested in them.

I think in general under 23 matches arn't rated too high anyways at most clubs, they are not competitive football with most teams loaning our or using their best under 23s. That's why people go out on loan, but think them training with the first team gets them used to the team, the intensity and not like they don't play against the first team players in the practice matches they play, so they still getting that experience of playing against people at a higher level than maybe they would get loaned out at, he certainly didn't rule out letting people go out on loan after they been with the first team a while. I think its part of his decision making of what to do with them next and this way you get to see if they really fit in or not

[Rob 4,504]

16 hours ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

The Olusanya and Ameobi ones will be firey affairs I can feel it now.

you know they a bad signing when I have to google to find out who Olusanya even is haha. guess he the none league guy warnock thought worth a punt as he probs  gets paid nothing lol. 

like on his Wikipedia list of games played he dont even look like he played enough matches to even warrant sending a scout out to watch him.

[Bruce 1,559]

4 hours ago, Rob said:

I don't think its clear he don't rate all the u23s, very pessimistic way of looking at it just because he isn't giving any of them a game all the time.

...

I think in general under 23 matches arn't rated too high anyways at most clubs, they are not competitive football with most teams loaning our or using their best under 23s. 

To be honest, I'm not sure. Looking at who he picked and who made it onto the bench he gave every impression of not wanting to put any of the U23s on the bench. Coburn got bench time but it's clear that Wilder didn't rate any of the strikers at the club, including his two loanees. 

Looking at Transfermarkt, there's only 8 of our U23s with a contract beyond the end of June 2022. Gibson and Dodds have signed new contracts so that means I can identify just 10 of the current U23 squad that will still be there on 1st July. 

Overall, I get the impression that he thinks that most of the 1st team squad and the U23s aren't good enough. I must admit that I have always thought our development teams were supposed to be among the best in the business but over the last little while they seem to have gone backwards. I don't think he's particularly interested in developing young players. I think Wilder fancies his ability to spot cast-offs from other clubs who can do a job for him but I don't see a track record of bringing players through from his own youth system. That said, he hasn't really had that as an option before.

Wilder reminds me of Pulis in some ways. He has a very clear idea of what he wants to do and looks for simple solutions. He knows how he wants his team to play and he is a pretty good judge of which players can play which roles. 

[Rob 4,504]

I think under 23s though do have a big turn around, even if your academy is great.

think its the nature of the beast, maybe I'm wrong but there isn't usually a massive amount of them crossing the lines to become first team players just a couple tops every year, and think most do end up going to other clubs or getting released for one reason or another. 

for the first team I think there is decent amount that need to go, I don't follow the under 23s as don't find it interesting as not really any interesting stakes for them to win as its essentially young reserves football so I can't really say if they good enough or not, but do think there is always a lot purged each year if they not ready at the end of their deals, they either good enough or not, or sick of waiting for a chance and go to their level they can step up to in my eyes

[Redcar Rioja 5,975]

2 hours ago, Rob said:

I think under 23s though do have a big turn around, even if your academy is great.

think its the nature of the beast, maybe I'm wrong but there isn't usually a massive amount of them crossing the lines to become first team players just a couple tops every year, and think most do end up going to other clubs or getting released for one reason or another. 

for the first team I think there is decent amount that need to go, I don't follow the under 23s as don't find it interesting as not really any interesting stakes for them to win as its essentially young reserves football so I can't really say if they good enough or not, but do think there is always a lot purged each year if they not ready at the end of their deals, they either good enough or not, or sick of waiting for a chance and go to their level they can step up to in my eyes

Some interesting stats!

https://medium.com/writing-in-the-media/according-to-research-only-1-in-200-youth-academy-players-make-it-to-the-first-team-a4d182e5b5cb