QPR v Boro 3-2 (Crooks, Forss)

[sackrobson2 371]

11 hours ago, BoroJake said:

Why is Lenihan starting over fry anyway?

A lot of this forum seemed to agree that was the right thing to do for some reason. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by sackrobson2

[Erimus 63 481]

3 hours ago, T-CIDER said:

Just home from the game so i'll share my perspective. First 45, anonymous. No threat going forward, and defensively poor. Both Jones and Giles getting caught out when making forward runs, and Jones in particular made several errors once tracking back. Worldie for the first, Steffen at fault for 2nd. 3rd and a consulation before half time probably heightened spirits by the smallest of touches. 2nd half we looked on it, and came at QPR like we should have from the off. Happy that Forss got his first goal in a Boro shirt, but come the 85th+ minute we lacked any drive to go and grab a point. 

I think looking at our team we definitely need at least 1 big signing up top, and equally a player in the middle who will shine. 

We aren't far off a decent team, but there's still some work to do.

Yes, we aren't far off a decent team and will stay that way unless Wilder pulls his finger out and does the best with what he's got at present. He clearly didn't do that today, not the first half anyway. 

I hope he got his ar** well and truly kicked by Gibson.  Just not good enough. If things don't change they'll stay as they as they are...

[sackrobson2 371]

8 hours ago, Changing Times said:

I don't think Bola was anywhere near our worst player but it does seem a little weird to me that a player who couldn't get in the side last season in his actual position, is being played this season in a different one, basically cos he's left footed.  I assume Wilder believed McNair was better than Bola last season otherwise he'd have played Bola and dropped McNair.  I get the wanting balance with left footed players on the left but it shouldn't be at the expense of playing a weaker side in my opinion.  

Totally agree. I heard a suggestion maybe McNair wasn’t fully fit in which case I’d understand but he missed last week through suspension not injury so it seems like it was a (strange) tactical decision. Balance is good but it doesn’t make up for playing a clearly inferior player purely for that reason. 

[Humpty 3,261]

2 hours ago, sackrobson2 said:

A lot of this forum seemed to agree that was the right thing to do for some reason. 

Not the members that know what they’re talking about 😉

[Duvel 2,446]

I obviously watched the game last week and I've seen the highlights from yesterday, the thing that concerns me at the moment is our shape at the back.

I've seen players running in space towards our back 4 and I'm wondering where Howson is at times, teams have identified that we are vulnerable in behind the wingbacks and we are very open to counter attacks. 

I suppose that has always been the problem with wingbacks, the opposition can get their strikers dropping into areas between the centre back and full back and it leaves you very exposed. 

We've got a decent manager and decent group of players at this level but I think teams have found a way to get at us defensively. I think Giles looks like he's going to create lots of chances for us down the left and Jones will be a threat down the right but neither are or look like defenders.

People on here commented when Tav left that we'd miss his athleticism which allowed him to cover down that left side when we were defending and you worry whether McGree will have the engine to do the same. 

I know its only very early days but there's something in the balance of the team that doesn't look quite right at the moment. To get the best out of Giles and Jones we need them playing high up the pitch but alongside that we probably need more legs in the midfield behind them. 

[Downsouth 6,327]

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12667100/qpr-3-2-middlesbrough-championship-highlights

 

Sorry boys but with the smooth there has to be some rough thrown in.

There are no excuses just some pretty awful stuff from Boro first half

[billsykes 17]

5 hours ago, Erimus 63 said:

Yes, we aren't far off a decent team and will stay that way unless Wilder pulls his finger out and does the best with what he's got at present. He clearly didn't do that today, not the first half anyway. 

I hope he got his ar** well and truly kicked by Gibson.  Just not good enough. If things don't change they'll stay as they as they are...

On a forum where so much *** is spouted that has to be the most profound and the most accurate statement ever.

[Leesider 1,076]

5 hours ago, sackrobson2 said:

A lot of this forum seemed to agree that was the right thing to do for some reason. 

A lot of this forum were happy to sell McNair.A lot of this forum were adamant that there was no rush in getting our squad completed until the end of the window. 5 points dropped in 2 games would indicate a lot of the forum members were completely wrong.

[Alves car salesman 152]

We scored from a corner and the run Forrss made for his goal was well timed and a good finish.

 

We clearly need someone with the physicality up that’ll front the ball can go up then bring others into the attack, which was the big difference in the second half!

Very early days in the season 

[Duvel 2,446]

19 minutes ago, Leesider said:

A lot of this forum were adamant that there was no rush in getting our squad completed until the end of the window.

What is the alternative? 

Its not easy to get all your signings done for the start of the season without massively paying over the odds. 

I bet if you looked on the message boards of other teams in our league they'll be saying similar. 

 

[TeaCider24 12,641]

I do find it funny how many daft fans are still trying to claim it's because of the Burnley situation when we do badly.

Wilder and the team can cock up without it being a conspiracy.

 

[Dynamo Kev 1,558]

46 minutes ago, Downsouth said:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12667100/qpr-3-2-middlesbrough-championship-highlights

 

Sorry boys but with the smooth there has to be some rough thrown in.

There are no excuses just some pretty awful stuff from Boro first half

it was bad but everytime i see that second goal its just a clean a foul on the keeper as you can get. he bumps him from behind as he goes to catch the ball and it pushes him under it and he misses the catch. if we had VAR they would have 2 goals we would have 3. because our offside goal was fine to. the offside player never touched it at all. 

we won  the game even after being so bad. if officials decisions were correct.

 

[Smokedsalmon 1,247]

Coming back from the match yesterday, I think it showed us all what we already knew; we are still 5-6 players away from being a top team and that we are incredibly inconsistent.

For me though, perhaps controversially, I really don't think we are well suited to this 3-5-2 system at all.

The back 3 should be the strongest part of the team on paper but I don't think it suits Fry or McNair. McNair is a midfielder for me, and Fry is not mobile enough to play as a wide centre back. I haven't seen enough of Lenihan to judge yet but I get the feeling he would feel more comfortable in a 2 as well. Bola should be nowhere near the team as a centre-half and I think Dijksteel is probably the only one who suits the wide centre-back role.

I think Jones and Giles are very average defenders, but good wingers. Giles in particular would be unbelievable at left wing. Jones needs to pull his finger out, for me. He was awful yesterday, both in possession and out of it. I don't think either are at their best as wing backs. Defensive responsibility tires them out and means after 60 minutes they're both pretty shot.

I think the midfield three are not suited to 3-5-2 at all;

Howson is not mobile enough to be the lone holding midfielder. McGree is clearly a #10, he's the best player we have at progressing the ball and driving, but he's trying to do it so deep that he gets crowded out and loses the ball a lot because of it. Crooks, again, plays his best football going forwards, with good goal/assist records, but he struggles to play box to box and impact the game in the midfield.

We are missing a deep-lying playmaker (like Josh Cullen at Burnley) and we are missing a midfield enforcer (in the mould that Clayton used to be for us). Both are integral in a system like this because the game is won and lost on being able to use your midfield numbers to control that part of the pitch. In the first half our midfield was not impacting on the game whatsoever.

Our strikers are probably the only part of the team genuinely suited to 3-5-2 as I don't think any of them could operate on their own. Hopefully that will soon change with reinforcements.

Long ramble there but I just couldn't help but feel if we had set up something like this...

Or even..

.

It gets our best players in their best position and shares defensively responsibility more evenly throughout the team. 3-5-2 relies so heavily on the back 3 & the midfield 3 to be defensively spot on and generally I believe it only suits elite teams like Chelsea who's defenders aren't going to make the same amount of errors as ours do.

I know Wilder had success with 3-5-2 with Sheffield United, but he had players who were more suited to playing that system and he built it over 3-4 years. He has come straight in here and tried to apply the exact same philosophy to a squad of players who, for me, just don't have the same qualities as the ones he had before.

[Leesider 1,076]

35 minutes ago, Duvel said:

What is the alternative? 

Its not easy to get all your signings done for the start of the season without massively paying over the odds. 

I bet if you looked on the message boards of other teams in our league they'll be saying similar. 

 

The weaknesses in the squad were obvious to everyone,There seems to he no joined up thinking re transfers at the club.Wider has said repeatedly he is heavily involved in recruitment but yet has no clue whats going on!

Everything seems to move in slow motion. I thought the whole idea of Scott & Co were identifying players early.That has'nt happened.

You could be right about other teams forums but i could'nt be arsed looking.Its hard enough reading this one at times🤣

[AnglianRed 6,320]

25 minutes ago, Smokedsalmon said:

Coming back from the match yesterday, I think it showed us all what we already knew; we are still 5-6 players away from being a top team and that we are incredibly inconsistent.

For me though, perhaps controversially, I really don't think we are well suited to this 3-5-2 system at all.

The back 3 should be the strongest part of the team on paper but I don't think it suits Fry or McNair. McNair is a midfielder for me, and Fry is not mobile enough to play as a wide centre back. I haven't seen enough of Lenihan to judge yet but I get the feeling he would feel more comfortable in a 2 as well. Bola should be nowhere near the team as a centre-half and I think Dijksteel is probably the only one who suits the wide centre-back role.

I think Jones and Giles are very average defenders, but good wingers. Giles in particular would be unbelievable at left wing. Jones needs to pull his finger out, for me. He was awful yesterday, both in possession and out of it. I don't think either are at their best as wing backs. Defensive responsibility tires them out and means after 60 minutes they're both pretty shot.

I think the midfield three are not suited to 3-5-2 at all;

Howson is not mobile enough to be the lone holding midfielder. McGree is clearly a #10, he's the best player we have at progressing the ball and driving, but he's trying to do it so deep that he gets crowded out and loses the ball a lot because of it. Crooks, again, plays his best football going forwards, with good goal/assist records, but he struggles to play box to box and impact the game in the midfield.

We are missing a deep-lying playmaker (like Josh Cullen at Burnley) and we are missing a midfield enforcer (in the mould that Clayton used to be for us). Both are integral in a system like this because the game is won and lost on being able to use your midfield numbers to control that part of the pitch. In the first half our midfield was not impacting on the game whatsoever.

Our strikers are probably the only part of the team genuinely suited to 3-5-2 as I don't think any of them could operate on their own. Hopefully that will soon change with reinforcements.

Long ramble there but I just couldn't help but feel if we had set up something like this...

Or even..

.

It gets our best players in their best position and shares defensively responsibility more evenly throughout the team. 3-5-2 relies so heavily on the back 3 & the midfield 3 to be defensively spot on and generally I believe it only suits elite teams like Chelsea who's defenders aren't going to make the same amount of errors as ours do.

I know Wilder had success with 3-5-2 with Sheffield United, but he had players who were more suited to playing that system and he built it over 3-4 years. He has come straight in here and tried to apply the exact same philosophy to a squad of players who, for me, just don't have the same qualities as the ones he had before.

 

Seems like a pretty good analysis there. 👍

 

I didn't see the match yesterday - had more urgent matters to attend to and for some reason I can never find a stream when when play QPR away.

But your comments do echo what I said last season when Wilder took over...namely that our success will depend heavily on being able to bring in exactly the type of players needed to make his tactics work.

After the "new manager bounce" last season we did struggle quite often, with the issues you've highlighted being glaringly obvious sometimes.

Based on what I saw last season, we simply don't have the players to make a back 3 work and given the club's current transfer efforts seem to be focused on forwards, I doubt we will solve this any time soon. Our wing-backs play more like conventional wingers - good in attack, but ineffective as defenders.

The other major defect from last season still seems to be afflicting the team, where we go missing for 20-30 minutes (or even an entire half). Wilder and the coaches need to read the riot act to the entire squad and let them know this is not acceptable...either shape up or ship out.