I'm not usually one for stats across a season but for the last 13 consecutive league and cup games we have failed to score the first goal so have been recovering from a losing position. 

Fully expect we'll fall behind again tomorrow and if we are 0-2 in the first half the crowd will turn. You could hear in the last 2 away games that the crowd is starting to turn cynical in terms of the team but not quite Carrick yet. 

Fail to win tomorrow and I think he might be toast. 

Tomorrow I would try to get an much experience on the pitch as possible;

My Team

Dieng

Smith Fry Lenighan McNair

O'Brien Howson

Forss McGree Jones 

Lath

Carricks Team

Dieng

Rav Fry Lenighan Engles (🤯)

Hackney O'Brien

Jones Crooks Silvera

Lath

1 hour ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I suspect Carrick will stick with his selections, formation and tactics that are failing so badly. I think we will see a repeat of a dysfunctional side with no joined up thinking. I believe we will see unmarked opposition attackers in and around our 18 yard box as we have done all season. I believe that Silvera and Crooks will start and Jones will be on the bench along with a few other bizarre thought processes evidenced.

Why would he change anything now? He clearly believes that if he keeps repeating things along with his 4231 that he doesn't have the personnel for it will eventually work, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I hope he proves me wrong and springs a few surprises and shocks but sadly I'm expecting outrage at his team announcement, all hell letting loose on here after 20 minutes of nothingness, scarring our eyes and then exploding when we concede from an unmarked Saints Player firing home with nobody anywhere near him.

I'm expecting no changes at half time much to our collective disbelief and annoyance and then a flurry of late Subs removing Players who are having an influence and leaving on failures who continue to struggle. Depressing state of affairs really but it can only continue for so long and unless Carrick, Woodgate and Danks get their collective heads out of their rear passageways tomorrow will not be pleasant for anyone apart from the Away camp.

If I see a 4231 with Silvera in the line up, then I'm missing my first game since Warnock managed us. I've watched or listened to every minute of Wilder, Leo, and Carrick's tenures.

Just cba, this season has been exhausting and it's hard to justify revolving my Saturday around it. Obviously hope we win and turn it around but could do with a break this weekend. 

3 games in a row I've watched this Southampton team concede from a mistake playing out from the back and be eviscerated by pace on the counter

Game's made for Latte Lath/Jones' pace and Forss' pressing 

I'd like to see a ban on Engel playing vs the likes of Edozie, Walker-Peters and Sulemana after his showing mid week. Hopefully Bangura is fit 

Also I don't buy into this new narrative of 4231 being '***' I think just more fan-logic from people who said the same about 352 pretty much exactly a year ago, now 352 is suddenly somehow the answer 

Amazing what a few losses do to a fickle mind 

Edited September 22, 20232 yr by LBP

Give Barlaser a game. 

6 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Give Barlaser a game. 

We aren't in League One yet. 

48 minutes ago, LBP said:

I don't buy into this new narrative of 4231 being '***' I think just more fan-logic from people who said the same about 352 pretty much exactly a year ago, now 352 is suddenly somehow the answer 

Amazing what a few losses do to a fickle mind 

I think you've missed the point. The Fans can see that Carrick doesn't have the Players to play his preferred 4231, if he did we wouldn't be in this mess. For his system to work he needs an Akpom type and Strikers that score and a side with pace, energy and synergy. Despite buying countless players in the Summer none of them can seemingly fill that Chuba role which is why Crooks (sometimes Rogers) is often dumped in it. All of us can see that as much as Crooks always gives 100% he's no talismanic No.10. The new Scott model was supposed to buy Players suitable to the methodology and ethos of the Club, if it is wedded to 4231 then the Club failed to adequately recruit, it's that simple, square pegs for square holes. We have bought a lot of triangles, oblongs and circles with potential but ignored the basic fundamental needs of squares.

The fans are well aware that replacing the calibre of Archer and especially Akpom and Giles along with to a lesser extent Ramsey was going to be tough if not impossible. Bizarrely though we did it early on with Dieng for Steffen or did we just get lucky there? Had newer but less capable signings came in that look like they will mature into those roles then I think we could all have accepted it to a degree and bought into that. The problem is that we didn't recruit such players and the fact that Carrick mixes his team selection up more than a Haribo's fun size this season tells us that Carrick knows that as well yet perversely persists with the 4231, perhaps now I suspect to deliberately make a point at his dissatisfaction.

Had we had one or two young lads being blooded and signed a few more Championship savvy Players (Chair/Willock as examples) then the transition may have been easier and more likely to just cough and splutter until we clicked rather than conked out. At the moment nothing or no one is clicking and his system definitely isn't, poor defensively again but no speed of transition into attack, a poor and lost looking midfield offering nothing in attack and even less in defence and a strike force that can't strike (at least on target). We saw at the end of last season how results dried up when opposition Managers sussed the system and countered it so regardless of having the right Players a Plan B will always be required. 

With all that in mind the Fans are suggesting different team selections and different formations more in line to the skill sets available. That's not fans being fickle, it's fans being positive and constructive in the hope it saves Carrick his job because despite all the frustrations this season Carrick is still liked.

1 hour ago, LBP said:

3 games in a row I've watched this Southampton team concede from a mistake playing out from the back and be eviscerated by pace on the counter

Game's made for Latte Lath/Jones' pace and Forss' pressing 

I'd like to see a ban on Engel playing vs the likes of Edozie, Walker-Peters and Sulemana after his showing mid week. Hopefully Bangura is fit 

Also I don't buy into this new narrative of 4231 being '***' I think just more fan-logic from people who said the same about 352 pretty much exactly a year ago, now 352 is suddenly somehow the answer 

Amazing what a few losses do to a fickle mind 

Agree formations are just dots on a screen, it’s what the manager instructs the players to do that matters. 352 was never the problem last season it was the way wilder wanted it played. Last season under Carrick he set up as 4231 but during play it was far from it.

1 hour ago, LBP said:

3 games in a row I've watched this Southampton team concede from a mistake playing out from the back and be eviscerated by pace on the counter

Game's made for Latte Lath/Jones' pace and Forss' pressing 

I'd like to see a ban on Engel playing vs the likes of Edozie, Walker-Peters and Sulemana after his showing mid week. Hopefully Bangura is fit 

Also I don't buy into this new narrative of 4231 being '***' I think just more fan-logic from people who said the same about 352 pretty much exactly a year ago, now 352 is suddenly somehow the answer 

Amazing what a few losses do to a fickle mind 

I don't see how we play VDB and Smith as the two fullbacks mate, if it came to that I mean.  VDB offers next to nothing going forward if that's what we are looking for.  If we're aiming to try a more defensive set up then fair enough I guess but you don't want McGree tucking inside all the time if that's the case.  If Bangura isn't fit, and Carrick intends on playing the same way, I'd just play Engel.

2 hours ago, Stitchy said:

I'm not usually one for stats across a season but for the last 13 consecutive league and cup games we have failed to score the first goal so have been recovering from a losing position. 

Fully expect we'll fall behind again tomorrow and if we are 0-2 in the first half the crowd will turn. You could hear in the last 2 away games that the crowd is starting to turn cynical in terms of the team but not quite Carrick yet. 

Fail to win tomorrow and I think he might be toast. 

Tomorrow I would try to get an much experience on the pitch as possible;

My Team

Dieng

Smith Fry Lenighan McNair

O'Brien Howson

Forss McGree Jones 

Lath

Carricks Team

Dieng

Rav Fry Lenighan Engles (🤯)

Hackney O'Brien

Jones Crooks Silvera

Lath

You say the away fans turning sadly they are usually the last to turn. That does not bode well for tomorrow. Hope to F*** We some how grab a win.

I've seen Boro play Saints several times at Ayresome and never seen Boro win. We create enough chances so let's hope this is our first win.

If Carrick doesn’t have a fully fit right back then I don’t get why he picks a formation that relies on a right back?

I think we’d be much better with width from a lb and rb area. So it would seem logical to try a 352 or variation of that as a short term measure. 
 

Dieng

VDB Fry Lenihan 

this back three would be more than capable in the championship and more importantly they’d all be in their natural positions. Maybe Lenihan not quite as the LCB but he’s more than capable. 

Jones and Bangura/ Engel as wing backs again this would give us width but also create more space when going forward to allow the forward players to tuck inside. I’d prefer Bangura but I haven’t really seen Engel in any attacking sense yet to comment.   

Obrien

McGree Hackney 

 Next a midfield three of Hackney, Obrien and McGree. Obrien as the sitter and holder, McGree and hackney to play in either half of the pitch to be our progressive players to pick a pass and unlock a defence. More than capable at this level but crucially would have the protection of going forward with Obrien sitting. 
 

So so far it’s 

dieng

VDB fry len

 jones Obrien hackney Bangura 

McGree 

then the final two up front is Lath and Forss

plenty of energy to chase and wear them down. All playing in their natural positions and should be able be provided supply from the sides with Bangura and Jones, or through the centre with hackney and McGree 

the key to this is that it has plenty of options to play quickly, rather than being crowded out in their final third 

1 hour ago, Changing Times said:

I don't see how we play VDB and Smith as the two fullbacks mate, if it came to that I mean.  VDB offers next to nothing going forward if that's what we are looking for.  If we're aiming to try a more defensive set up then fair enough I guess but you don't want McGree tucking inside all the time if that's the case.  If Bangura isn't fit, and Carrick intends on playing the same way, I'd just play Engel.

Fair point mate, I honestly thought VDB when he went to LB offered more of an attacking threat than Engel did. Can't really recall anything Engel has done offensively in his time here so far honestly, he rarely seems to get forward as if he's been instructed not to. Maybe they've seen in training what we saw midweek, him being exposed badly by pace

I liked what I saw from Bangura going forward vs Blackburn so hoping he's fit and we can somewhat recreate the link up McGree and Giles had down the left

2 hours ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I think you've missed the point. The Fans can see that Carrick doesn't have the Players to play his preferred 4231, if he did we wouldn't be in this mess. For his system to work he needs an Akpom type and Strikers that score and a side with pace, energy and synergy. Despite buying countless players in the Summer none of them can seemingly fill that Chuba role which is why Crooks (sometimes Rogers) is often dumped in it. All of us can see that as much as Crooks always gives 100% he's no talismanic No.10. The new Scott model was supposed to buy Players suitable to the methodology and ethos of the Club, if it is wedded to 4231 then the Club failed to adequately recruit, it's that simple, square pegs for square holes. We have bought a lot of triangles, oblongs and circles with potential but ignored the basic fundamental needs of squares.

The fans are well aware that replacing the calibre of Archer and especially Akpom and Giles along with to a lesser extent Ramsey was going to be tough if not impossible. Bizarrely though we did it early on with Dieng for Steffen or did we just get lucky there? Had newer but less capable signings came in that look like they will mature into those roles then I think we could all have accepted it to a degree and bought into that. The problem is that we didn't recruit such players and the fact that Carrick mixes his team selection up more than a Haribo's fun size this season tells us that Carrick knows that as well yet perversely persists with the 4231, perhaps now I suspect to deliberately make a point at his dissatisfaction.

Had we had one or two young lads being blooded and signed a few more Championship savvy Players (Chair/Willock as examples) then the transition may have been easier and more likely to just cough and splutter until we clicked rather than conked out. At the moment nothing or no one is clicking and his system definitely isn't, poor defensively again but no speed of transition into attack, a poor and lost looking midfield offering nothing in attack and even less in defence and a strike force that can't strike (at least on target). We saw at the end of last season how results dried up when opposition Managers sussed the system and countered it so regardless of having the right Players a Plan B will always be required. 

With all that in mind the Fans are suggesting different team selections and different formations more in line to the skill sets available. That's not fans being fickle, it's fans being positive and constructive in the hope it saves Carrick his job because despite all the frustrations this season Carrick is still liked.

I can't agree I just put it down to fans becoming more irate after each non-win so something's GOT to change;

A % of the fanbase are saying Gibbo has to sell up 

Another % saying Carrick and/or Woodgate need sacking

Others now saying the formation

Momentum is one of the most important and undervalued aspects of football so maybe the biggest problem we have as a club is the squad might be mentally weak? A lot of these players are the same players who went on the same bad streak last season under a different coaching and tactical set up. What's the reason for that? Fans then said 3 at the back was the problem and that they 'never want to see it again' only to be calling for it after 7 games of a new season. Just makes no sense to me especially after we've just signed a load of attacking midfielders in the summer more suited to the 4231 Carrick plays, not to mention that you can't just switch system...it's got to be coached. 3 days of training to play 3 ATB? Just makes me question whether fans actually think the setup is the issue or it's just...

NON WIN = CHANGE SOMETHING 

Just like how Latte Lath's been told to f**k off back to Italy by 1 or 2 members on here because SHOT NO GO IN = BAD PLAYER 

Had a dream last night this finished 5-5, with us being 5-2 up with 10 minutes to play

Probably not outside of the realms of possibility either

38 minutes ago, LBP said:

Fans then said 3 at the back was the problem and that they 'never want to see it again' only to be calling for it after 7 games of a new season. Just makes no sense to me especially after we've just signed a load of attacking midfielders in the summer more suited to the 4231 Carrick plays, not to mention that you can't just switch system...it's got to be coached. 3 days of training to play 3 ATB? Just makes me question whether fans actually think the setup is the issue or it's just...

NON WIN = CHANGE SOMETHING 

Just like how Latte Lath's been told to f**k off back to Italy by 1 or 2 members on here because SHOT NO GO IN = BAD PLAYER 

The three at the back with Wilder was with his overlapping CB's which was constantly exposed, not the same as fans are currently suggesting. Nobody who is suggesting three at the back are pushing for Fry or Lenihan to get up the pitch and overload the midfield which was Wilder's plan. The two are not comparable.

It's not just after 7 games of the new season either, the problems manifested themselves at the end of last season and even during pre season where we looked questionable at best and poor in the main. 

We have indeed just signed a load of attacking midfielders but it is very evident that at the moment they are either not suited to Carrick's system or are not yet good enough to make the system work. There again Recruitment may argue that the problem is Carrick in not being able to get them to work. Whatever way you look at it our results and league placing screams that they are not suited to the system Carrick plays or at least not yet but the question then is when, January, April of next year in League One?

You are right with "NON WIN = CHANGE SOMETHING", something has to change otherwise we will be relegated and long before that Carrick will be sacked. Relegation would seriously damage the Club's viability and perhaps even survivability long term. There is no promise that we would bounce back anytime soon so in the light of all that risk something must change. Doing nothing is relying on blind faith or hope which are never great options.

I haven't picked up anyone on here suggesting that Latte Lath clear off back to Italy, maybe in the heat of the match when he's missed a sitter but nobody in the after game discussions and rational comments dissecting the games are wanting to send him back. The general mood I'm getting about him is that he has energy, skill and a bit of pace with potential but his finishing (along with Silvera's) is breathtakingly poor, fans see something in him and many are clamouring for him to be used in the Akpom role, hardly a desire to send him back.

Let's hope that whatever Carrick does tomorrow works because if it doesn't his role will become untenable and the change most likely to come will be with himself.