Have some faith FFS. 

I think we'll easily stay up. 

1 minute ago, Neverbefore said:

Semenyo has looked class this season

He's a very good player but he's not worth losing a 19 year old super talent over. They clearly for whatever reason don't have much faith in Doak as the rest of the football world. 

3 minutes ago, Obii said:

Ben Doak + anything for Semenyo is a colossal *** up if you're Liverpool

Unless they retain some kind of buy-back on him its a mental bit of business imo

1 minute ago, Neverbefore said:

Semenyo has looked class this season

Aye its not a knock on Semenyo he's great. I have a lot of confidence in Ben Doak becoming a better player. Think it would be insane to hand him over plus cash. It's the kind of deal that in 3 or 4 years time has people baffled

1 minute ago, Bruce said:

It is, I agree. Thing about blooding a youngster is that he will almost certainly be worse in his position than a current first team player however, if you don't give them time to improve by actually playing them they will never get anywhere.

By the end of last season, it was presumably clear to everyone at the club that Barlaser was a poor fit for the team so why didn't we do what Leo did with Hackney and promote McCabe ahead of him? That's just an example, I have nothing against Barlaser who I reckon gets an unfair amount of abuse but if you're going to spend the money we do on the academy then the manager has to take the initiative and promote 1-2 of them ahead of a current first team member each season. 

We brought Edmundson in on loan, which is fine but a braver manager brings in Hunt and accepts that he'll have a painful learning curve. We know there's a problem with Engel and Bangura gets injured again but instead of taking the plunge with McCormick we buy Borges. You wouldn't do all three youngsters but in every case, where Carrick has an option of an academy youngster or bringing in someone from outside, he chooses against the academy. Even at the beginning of last season, he could have gone with Brynn rather than Dieng as it looks like Brynn would have adapted to the Championship pretty quickly.

There is a limit to the number of youngsters you can bring *properly* into the first team squad but Carrick has brought no one in in 2.5 seasons and that shows no sign of changing. 

Think about how much Edmundson has played for us though. I think it’s a little ridiculous to suggest we should have thrown in a 16 year old lad who had played 3 times for Swindon. Apart from anything else it wouldn’t be fair on him.

It's pretty evident, from the sounds coming out of Liverpool, that they're happy to use Doak as a pawn.

I don't think he's in their future plans, and they're happy to just sell for big money.

2 minutes ago, Marvanelli said:

It's pretty evident, from the sounds coming out of Liverpool, that they're happy to use Doak as a pawn.

I don't think he's in their future plans, and they're happy to just sell for big money.

Even if that is the case though, it just seems like a crap business plan. The lad is 19, if they loaned him out next season to a prem club and he tears it up his value could double or triple.

Edited January 13, 20251 yr by JTG

I could see the sense in them loaning Doak to Bournemouth to help convince them to sell Semenyo but to use him permanently  as part of a deal to reduce the fee is transfer suicide in my opinion.

A lot of the stuff from the echo and gazette seem to suggest we would have sold Lath in the summer if it wasn’t deadline day as we didn’t have enough time and now the echo revealed Ipswich total offer including add ons is 20 in the summer I think we take this one as our valuation is met 

3 minutes ago, JTG said:

Even if that is the case though, it just seems like a crap business plan

To be fair. Liverpool's business plan and model is far from crap.

They've sold many many youngsters for huge fees...and most have proved to be correct.

Liverpool's model is pretty successful.

4 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink Army said:

A lot of the stuff from the echo and gazette seem to suggest we would have sold Lath in the summer if it wasn’t deadline day as we didn’t have enough time and now the echo revealed Ipswich total offer including add ons is 20 in the summer I think we take this one as our valuation is met 

When you look at what we sold Rogers for, and think it was only about £8m guaranteed, there's not a chance we're turning down £20m+ for Latte Lath.

54 minutes ago, edinboro said:

I am only guess here. Carrick said after Saturday we have to be careful with McCabe. It seems he was about the only player to do himself any favours.

I suspect the coaches doesn't want to ruin the young players. We have seen it numerous times with our superstar youngsters who come in and for various reasons don't make it. I think we are a tad too cautious but think it is for good reasons. Not saying I agree 100% but I think that is the thinking.

Think you are partly right. Other reason is Carrick doesn’t trust them to do “as good a job” as the senior players in the short term. We are in a position where he is going to be judged more and more with getting promotion. Ironically if we were less well funded and had to accept mid to lower table life as a norm, there would be a lot more pressure to blood the youngsters and more acceptance from supporters of that even when they made errors. That’s where Sunderland have gained hugely in the last few years and are now reaping the rewards. 
Im really not convinced about “being careful” with McCabe. Sure, don’t overuse him and rotate him - but Doak is younger, isn’t he and so are quite a few youngsters in PL that come in and play regularly - because they are good enough. If McCabe is good enough, he will come on a lot faster playing than staying with U21s. Suspect “bring careful” is an easy way of deflecting criticism away from a pure reluctance by Carrick to use him.

Doaks price is currently 30mil apparently and that's all for potential. Semenyo has shown he can do it in the premier league and his market value is far more than 30mil. Not sure what's so surprising about this. 

19 minutes ago, AllBoro10 said:

He's a very good player but he's not worth losing a 19 year old super talent over. They clearly for whatever reason don't have much faith in Doak as the rest of the football world. 

The rest of the football world? So far he's linked to Ipswich, Palace and Bournemouth. Hardly a super talent - not one big club with any interest.

Liverpool have a decent record of moving on youth for decent money - Ibe, Brewster - when they're satisfied they aren't elite level.

4 minutes ago, Marvanelli said:

To be fair. Liverpool's business plan and model is far from crap.

They've sold many many youngsters for huge fees...and most have proved to be correct.

Liverpool's model is pretty successful.

Fair enough. It would just seem to me that if your goal is simply to sell him on for the most money, you’d be cashing out before he hits his peak. If you look at his underlying numbers, they suggest to me that he has every chance of making the step up.