4 minutes ago, Micksyd said:

Would Tommy Doyle be in Boro's price range?

Wolves paid £4.3 million pre season. Doubt his value has increased as he is seen as surplus and not in the managers plans

21 hours ago, Changing Times said:

That's fair about Conway, he has a good goal per minute ratio you're right but he's nowhere near the player that Lath is/was.  Conway doesn't have the same ceiling because he doesn't have certain attributes that Lath did.  He doesn't have his pace for one thing, he doesn't have his work rate although I suppose he could improve that, he isn't to me as good as a finisher as Lath, and he's worse on his weaker foot than Lath is/was.  Conway success as a goalscorer is entirely reliant on the rest of the team in my opinion whereas Lath was a more general threat.  I don't see Conway making the step up to the Premier League for that reason, and I'd be surprised if a foreign top flight club were prepared to pay big money for him.  I would expect him to be playing second fiddle to a new striker signed in the summer.  He's almost what would have been called a sniffer back in the day, almost all of his goals are tap ins or easy finishes on the end of other players good play.  I think I'm right in saying that he's scored once against a side in the top half of the table, that was the goal at Bristol City.  Be honest about Conway, try and think back across this season, how many times have you watched him and thought he'd had a really good game.  I honestly can't think of any offhand.

Azaz is another who statistically looks better than he actually is.  I have a feeling that the lad is going to be too slow physically and mentally to play at the highest level.  He's another who doesn't seem to do well when the level of the opposition increases.  He has 21 goal involvements this season, which is fantastic, but he has only one assist and no goals against any of the top 10 teams.  Last season it wasn't much better, he had 9 goal involvements with us, and I think 3 were against top 10 teams.  So out of 30 goal involvements 4 have been against top 10 sides, and that's at this level.  Why would a team from a higher level want to spend big money on him?  Even reading this forum, half the time people seem to want him out of the side, and that isn't indicative of someone who is going to attract big bids.  Would a Championship club spend big on him thinking he could help them get promoted?  I suppose it's possible but I think we'd be talking single figure millions not double figure millions.  

Morris is overrated by the fanbase because he's a new signing.  He hasn't improved us at all, our midfield isn't better since his arrival, and he doesn't play well enough often enough to be someone who is going to be getting interest at the highest level.  Honestly, I don't think he's much better than Morsy was, and whilst Morsy has done well for himself, he would never be someone getting big money offers.  He makes a lot of tackles, which I like about him, and he's generally tidy on the ball as well.  But I think he makes too many mental mistakes.  That's something he can definitely get better at with more experience but I'd say his positioning and just general concentration and decision making aren't good enough to be going for big money.  Hackney is as good as him defensively but a much better player with the ball, and that's why Hackney will go for decent money.  Morris would have to improve to get the same interest.  It's not impossible, and you and Humpty are right to put his name forward, and the other two as well.  But I don't see them as having the same potential as Hackney and VDB, and I feel like other clubs will share that opinion.

That’s the thing though we don’t need top premier league sides to want them, we bought well enough that relegated parachute payment teams would offer enough if they have decent enough seasons. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with the assessment of the players but we could still easily get decent money for Conway and Azaz at the very least. 
 

I think you’re underestimating Conway a bit also, I agree Lath is a better individual player as in he would make something out of nothing. But I think Conway has his own attributes, I think he’s better positionally, he’s got good intelligence, his game is pretty similar to Bamford I feel, not to mention he’s 3 years behind where Lath was when we signed him. 
 

Azaz I’d agree with, he’s not the guy I want at #10 never has been, not influential enough, not enough presence on the pitch, not consistent enough. Another carried player rather than carrier. BUT that doesn’t take away that his attacking stats are crazily good for an attacking midfielder, he’s another one who’d have thrived in the old team. 
 

To me whatever angle I look at it, we needed to and never did replace Akpom and has been Scott’s biggest failing ever since.

1 hour ago, TeaCider24 said:

I'd not be against it, I thought Brynn was absolutely fine, without being exceptional.

I think Travers has been better, but I didn't have any issues with Brynn being first choice.

The main worry for me would be a recurrence of his shoulder dislocation, if it's happened before, it's more likely to happen again.

Travers is a great keeper imo but Brynns distribution is far better. I know stopping goals is obviously most important but I’ve seen plenty of times Travers hoofs up the pitch have put us in trouble, it led to one of Bristol’s goals aswell as a direct example. Ignored an easy pass to the rb, hoofed it and the ball came straight back within seconds. 

10 hours ago, Humpty said:

I don't think i over rate the squad. My opinion of the squad, certainly from the start of the season at least, generally aligns with that of Scott, Carrick, the Echo and the Gazette, the bookies and a substantial proportion of our fan base.

Thanks for your opinion on my opinion though.

If you believe that it should be in the top 2, and I think I'm right in saying that you have said that, then you are overrating it.  The fact that other people overrate it as well is neither here nor there 🤷‍♂️

Most discussions are opinions on opinions, particularly when it's about something subjective as this is.  You really don't need to thank me for it but it's appreciated.

9 hours ago, Brunners said:

Bit tangential to the discussion you two are having, but IMO you don't need loads of players being turned over for big profits to be a success. You only need to find like..1 a year and that will finance your next 3-4 attempts with money left over. 

The idea that he's not a success because we've only sold Rogers and ELL for big money is a flawed premise IMO. 

For me Scott is a success at that side of football because he's already flipped two in such a short space of time. 

Also people hand waving away the idea that outside of VDB no one else will go for big money is making a claim they just can't possibly know.

Morris, Conway and Azaz all have the chance to go for 8 figures easily.

Azaz might well this summer, despite his flaws you can't undervalue the fact that he's good for 10g10a essentially every year.

Conway and Morris both probs need another season but have shown in spells just how good they can be, so the idea that there's no one else after VDB is silly..

If the only thing he's here for is to do that then yeah he should be doing it better.  Obviously that isn't the only reason he's here regardless of the nonsense being discussed at the moment.  He's here to build a promotion winning squad, and he has failed to do that so far.  The only reason that the financial side of things is being discussed is because it's the only way to build a case that he's doing a great job.  I would say he's doing a middling job personally.

Nobody can tell the future you're right about that.  But I think we can look at a player and make a reasonable determination of whether we believe that they can step up to a higher level.  The players we are talking about have no outstanding qualities in my opinion, which usually means that clubs aren't going to spend big on them.  That doesn't mean I view them as bad players, I just think they have a lower ceiling.  I always believed that someone like Spence would go for good money, even when a lot of people thought I was daft, because he has outstanding qualities, and they gave him potential that I felt someone would take the risk on - this was before his loan at Forest as well so not based on his season there.  I don't believe that Conway, Morris or Azaz have any to speak of or if they do then they haven't shown it yet.  That to me is why clubs won't see the same potential in them that they might have seen in Latte Lath for example, and therefore why they won't be willing to spend the big money on them.  I would disagree that either Conway or Morris have shown in spells anything other than they are at the right level for them.  Certainly at the moment anyway.  I think it's right to say that this could change in the future but that change would come from their abilities, and that takes me back to my assessment of them so far.  As for Azaz, I would be staggered if anyone would bid £10m+ for him.  If they did I think we'd take it in an instant.  He hasn't shown anywhere near enough against better sides, which is one of the reasons why half the forum seems to want him dropped every few weeks.

9 hours ago, Bruce said:

Agreed. Plus, not every signing is meant to be a money-maker. Signings like Smith, Ayling, Edmundson, Lenihan, Glover weren't based on making a profit.

Other signings like Barlaser, Engel, Burgzorg, Borges, Bangura and so on may or may not make a profit but it's certainly not the prime motivation. Probably the aim is to break even overall while getting a good 2-3 seasons out of them.

McGree, Forss, Latte Lath, Conway, Azaz, Morris, Whittaker are all clearly intended to be sold for a decent profit at a later date but there is a risk of not recouping a substantial (in Championship terms) fee if things go wrong. They are all intended to be 1st team starters.

Players such as Rav, Hamilton, Gilbert, Rogers, Silvera, Hoppe all seem to have been bought with an eye to having a chance to skyrocket in value but you only expect a fairly small number to do so.

Are any of them expected to make us a better team or get us promoted just out of interest?

9 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

I'd be surprised if anyone offered us 8 figures for VDB after the poor, injury ridden season he's had.

I think VDB will go for good money because people will still see potential in him.  The same potential they saw when they were interested when we signed him.  The injuries this season won't make much of a difference to that.  Clubs will tend to believe that those issues won't be repeated unless a player has had a longer track record of them, and even then some clubs will ignore it and believe that it will be different there.

41 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

If you believe that it should be in the top 2, and I think I'm right in saying that you have said that, then you are overrating it.  The fact that other people overrate it as well is neither here nor there 🤷‍♂️

Most discussions are opinions on opinions, particularly when it's about something subjective as this is.  You really don't need to thank me for it but it's appreciated.

I don't agree. I think multiple sources, with broadly the same train of thought, gives plenty of credence to that belief. Particularly when it’s a subjective issue.

I also didn’t say we should be top 2, I said we should be challenging for the top 2, which isn’t the same thing. 

1 minute ago, Humpty said:

I don't agree. I think multiple sources, with broadly the same train of thought, gives plenty of credence to that belief. Particularly when it’s a subjective issue.

I also didn’t say we should be top 2, I said we should be challenging for the top 2, which isn’t the same thing. 

Yeah but two of the sources are the people responsible for putting the squad together, and the other sources tend to take their lead from them, don't they?   Like maybe they overrated their own signings, and that lead other people to do the same?  My mistake on the top 2 bit in that case 👍

At the start of the season I thought also that on paper we were good enough to challenge the top 2. I think it’s turned out we have to many average players being averagely coached while playing a champions league style system.

I overrated Hamilton I thought he’d be much more ‘ready’ than he was, I backed the recruitment team with Burgzorg thinking he would shine alongside better players and I thought Doak would be like Mason Mount was at Derby.

The signing I didn’t like the most (Morris) actually turned out to be one of the better ones until he got that injury. I think we’ve just witnessed the perfect storm of *** and tbh I have no opinion on how the club might fix it as I have no idea. 
 

If it’s the players being below par does Carrick get leeway? Or were the players good enough and Carrick just can’t coach them properly? 

Time to fire up the Supercomputer guys 👍 

8 minutes ago, Nobby Barnes said:

Time to fire up the Supercomputer guys 👍 

 

Greetings Professor Nobby 

 

Bah!  Stupid forum.

EIO EIO EIO EIO EIO EIO 🙌

Edited March 26, 20251 yr by Changing Times

7 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Bah!  Stupid forum.

EIO EIO EIO EIO EIO EIO 🙌

Old McNobby had a farm

And on this farm were toothless sheep? 🙂   

Just now, Old Codger said:

Old McNobby had a farm

And on this farm were toothless sheep? 🙂   

For his safety?