Boro v Ipswich 0-2

[LinoJo3 5,785 13.6k]

4 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Lol. I guess we're now only *** 50% of the time...which is an improvement on the start of the season I suppose. 😁

We’re just not as good as the teams 2nd and 3rd, there’s no shame in that really, we did well against Leicester but we won’t be the first or last to put up a good fight against the league leaders.

Ipswich are on a high and we are probably in a pretty big hangover from last season, plus a high turnover of players, plus a long injury list. 
 

I think it’s pretty important that as fans we don’t expect complete perfection in every single game. It’s fine saying ‘oh we might struggle here’ before a tough game, but you have to stick with that during and after the game. 
 

As fans we need to support Carrick as much as we can, he may not be 100% perfect but he’s the best we’ve had for a long time and we can see what he’s been given in summer. If we lose a game we lose a game, just get over it tbh.

[Rob 6,410 9.8k]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:07 PM, diggerlad07 said:

Let's look at the bigger picture, we have just been beating comfortably by the team that are flying high in 2nd and we are missing key players

This current squad even if everybody is fit is still only good enough for a 8th to 14th position imo... 

Without Carrick we wouldn't even be competing close to the play offs with this squad.

Said at the end of August we really do need a striker and a Andy townsend/Boateng type player to even come close to play offs this season, now I'd add a centre back

How Clarke got MOTM today is beyond me 🤣. Literally not one single player can come out with any sort of credit today. We were 2nd best in every battle in every position .

 

I'd of took 3 points from Ipswich and lecister city matches all day long 

[Neverbefore 15,083 29.3k]

50 minutes ago, Rob said:

I'd of took 3 points from Ipswich and lecister city matches all day long 

Currently tracking for 9 points from 15 from the current top 6 with West brom still to play. That shows we can absolutely compete with the best in this league and we will have a decent shot if we can snatch one of the play off spots. Just need to find some consistency which I think will come when we have more of a squad to work with. Atm the line ups are choosing themselves purely on the basis of who's still standing which is really handcuffing us.

[AnglianRed 7,882 18.1k]

9 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

We’re just not as good as the teams 2nd and 3rd, there’s no shame in that really, we did well against Leicester but we won’t be the first or last to put up a good fight against the league leaders.

Ipswich are on a high and we are probably in a pretty big hangover from last season, plus a high turnover of players, plus a long injury list. 
 

I think it’s pretty important that as fans we don’t expect complete perfection in every single game. It’s fine saying ‘oh we might struggle here’ before a tough game, but you have to stick with that during and after the game. 
 

As fans we need to support Carrick as much as we can, he may not be 100% perfect but he’s the best we’ve had for a long time and we can see what he’s been given in summer. If we lose a game we lose a game, just get over it tbh.

My point (which some people can't seem to grasp) is that we were just so bad.

Yes Ipswich have had an amazing season so far, but I don't think they played particularly well against us. The reason we lost was more down to how poor we were, rather than how good they were.

If they'd battered us, played us off the park, I would happily hold my hands up and say we got beaten by the better team. 

I mean, we still got beaten by the better team, but it was largely a result of our own passivity and incompetence. If we'd played anywhere near what we are capable of on a good day, we'd have got at least a point.

Even Ipswich's own fans have been saying they have been punching above their weight and they expect to run out of steam at some point, so its not like they are juggernauts of the league or anything.

I don't understand why we keep turning in such Jekyll and Hyde performances from one game to the next.

[Rishworthian 169 265]

AR  If we spent the entire week in lead up saying we're struggling for a team and all our best players are injured it is no surprise to me that we lose.  We spent the time telling ourselves that we are going to lose, in effect.  It becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

The fact that Ipswich have a very good defensive system certainly doesn't help.  

The fact that our players and management could not fathom out their tactics and negate/nullify them during the game says little for our adaptability

[Neverbefore 15,083 29.3k]

22 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

My point (which some people can't seem to grasp) is that we were just so bad.

Yes Ipswich have had an amazing season so far, but I don't think they played particularly well against us. The reason we lost was more down to how poor we were, rather than how good they were.

If they'd battered us, played us off the park, I would happily hold my hands up and say we got beaten by the better team. 

I mean, we still got beaten by the better team, but it was largely a result of our own passivity and incompetence. If we'd played anywhere near what we are capable of on a good day, we'd have got at least a point.

Even Ipswich's own fans have been saying they have been punching above their weight and they expect to run out of steam at some point, so its not like they are juggernauts of the league or anything.

I don't understand why we keep turning in such Jekyll and Hyde performances from one game to the next.

- our squad is young. Young players are inconsistent. 

- we're asking a 35 year old to be the engine of a championship midfield 270mins in a week because we don't have another option.

- one of our only 2 centre back options has been out for over a year. 

- we're riddled with injuries. When we can make changes its for other players who are just back from injuries. 

- we basically dont have a bench we can use. 

- different teams employ different tactics against us, some more effective than others. 

- some teams are better than others, so performances will vary from game to game.

- we've played 3 games in a week while not being able to make any changes, we're tired. 

- Carrick is still learning on the job, he's been a manager for a year. 

I honestly don't see what there is to not understand, there's tonnes of reasons for our current inconsistent period. At least we're still picking up an okay level of points and staying in touch with play offs through this period. 

[Neverbefore 15,083 29.3k]

I'm also not having anyone downplaying ipswich's performance. They nullified us and didn't let us lay a glove on them. There was no accident or luck about that, they just simply had our number, like Coventry last year. It happens in this league sometimes. They're the most effective opposition I've seen this season. 

[Erimus74 5,343 5.5k]

AR I agree & similar to the Leeds goals, Ipswich didn't need to work hard for them, we just seemed to be poor from kickoff, lethargic, sloppy passing, to many players off the pace, opposed to a team that is flying & full of confidence & when we did test their keeper he pulled off two very good saves

Whose to say Ipswich done enough to win the game & could have gone up another gear or two if we had got ourselves back in the game, with injuries & to many players struggling to put in a good performance it was always going to be difficult to salvage a point

To the people who knock Jones, we missed him, similar to Hackney v Stoke, his energy was badly missed on saturday, his defensive side of the game is so vital to us, him & Dijksteel will be a big plus for us v Hull City

[ScarBoro 1,145 1.5k]

17 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

I don't understand why we keep turning in such Jekyll and Hyde performances from one game to the next.

Injuries and inexperience.

Injuries mean we are constantly changing the team and having to play a lot of young inexperienced players together. Individually they would be fine and fit in with the established regular players without affecting the team too much. Play too many though and they are struggling to keep their own standards up, let alone influence the game or teammates. Some of them aren’t used to the sheer number of games they are having to play either. The grind of the Championship week in week out is something that must take some getting used to. Hence standards vary widely from match to match.

inexperience also in management and tactics. I’m supportive of Carrick, but he is learning as well and his lack of experience is showing, in my opinion. Firstly he spent all his time in the Premiership and the type of football there is different to the EFL. Sit back in the Premiership and the good teams  (as MU were during his time there) will always find a way to get past you eventually. Do it in the Championship and you might  well stifle the opposition and snatch a winner from one shot on target. You have to vary your tactics and we don’t seem to be willing or able to do it. I get that Carrick is trying to instill a particular style of football and keeping changing it goes against the grain ( and doesn’t help the inexperienced players coming in at the moment to be fair). However, if what you are doing isn’t working, you should mix it up.

Against Ipswich there was one passage of play in first half where we must have passed it around the back and defensive midfield for about 30 passes. We weren’t getting anywhere, Ipswich were content to stifle us and hope to jockey us into losing the ball - which did happen in the end. Sometimes you just have to take a risk and I wonder if the young players are “afraid” of doing that. I’m not sure I saw one forward pass in first half from VDB - it was always the safe  pass back or sideways. We didn’t seem to want to take a risk - that must be down to the instructions from Carrick and co. TBF Maybe that was because of a lack of movement from our players as well - Ipswich seemed to find space to pass into, our players seemed to be waiting for ball to come to them rather that move to make room.

We brought on Bangura and there was a lot of room in front of him on the wing - why not push him up to their back line. Either they leave him alone and we get chance to zip balls up to him and get him round the back, or they push a player out to mark him and leave more space inside. Why not bring on Coburn and shove a few long balls in - Ipswich were pressing us and Dieng was having to kick long sometimes anyway.
Every manager has his preferred style - the really good ones know that they have to adapt that style to fit the game. Sometimes just a small tweak, sometimes a big change for that game, but we don’t seem willing to do that.

[wilsoncgp 10,162 19.9k]

36 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I'm also not having anyone downplaying ipswich's performance. They nullified us and didn't let us lay a glove on them. There was no accident or luck about that, they just simply had our number, like Coventry last year. It happens in this league sometimes. They're the most effective opposition I've seen this season. 

We did have chances though, at least chances to make something. We had times when we got the ball behind their midfield and made nothing of it because of players not working well together. There were a fair few poor passes in good positions, a lot of them revolving around Crooks. I'm not gonna say Ipswich weren't good because they were but I think it's really hard to say they just completely disrupted our rhythm and that's that. There was something in that game for us if we were at the races.

They only truly started to open us up after they got their first, also. And I'm not sure how that can not be attributed to luck. The ball is heading straight at our keeper's midriff and a reasonable defensive reaction to stick a head out has caused the ball to go into the goal. Nobody was particularly to blame, Chaplin took his effort well and it was a threatening shot but it only goes in because of Clarke's reaction.

I'm not gonna moan about it because we are what we are right now and that is, as per the many reasons you listed prior to this post, quite understandable to me. But I think there was points in that game for us if one or two individuals played better on the day and more to the level we've come to expect of them. It is what it is, though, onto the next one.

[Rob 6,410 9.8k]

23 hours ago, Redcar Rioja said:

"As individuals, Ipswich are a decent team but nothing special at this level. Their togetherness, sympatico and understanding separates them from sides with a similar quality level of squad."

There are teams with far better individuals but collectively Ipswich are greater than the sum of their parts because of their understanding or being "well drilled" as you put it. It's not intended to be disparaging towards them, it's a compliment.

yep and that is the way I see us getting promoted when it happens, everything just falls into place that season and the sum of the parts just clicks and works that year 

19 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

But aren't you frustrated by this?

How we can put in disciplined or great attacking performances against the likes of Leicester and Preston, yet be plodding, pedestrian and disorganised, letting teams like Bristol, Ipswich beat us without trying too hard...and completely lose the plot against Leeds?

Its like some weeks we decide to turn up and others we barely even try.

I just can't understand how we can be so schizophrenic. Maybe someone can educate me?

Also, as I mentioned before, the "on again, off again" performances can be traced back to the Stoke game, so it started before injuries became a critical thing.

most of the championship are off again and on again all the time, its pretty inconsistent outside of the top positions. this is where we are so for me its par for the course of where we are currently in the championship rat race.

and with the squad being relatively thin it's only going to get in the way of us finding some consistency again.

[LinoJo3 5,785 13.6k]

8 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

My point (which some people can't seem to grasp) is that we were just so bad.

Yes Ipswich have had an amazing season so far, but I don't think they played particularly well against us. The reason we lost was more down to how poor we were, rather than how good they were.

If they'd battered us, played us off the park, I would happily hold my hands up and say we got beaten by the better team. 

I mean, we still got beaten by the better team, but it was largely a result of our own passivity and incompetence. If we'd played anywhere near what we are capable of on a good day, we'd have got at least a point.

Even Ipswich's own fans have been saying they have been punching above their weight and they expect to run out of steam at some point, so its not like they are juggernauts of the league or anything.

I don't understand why we keep turning in such Jekyll and Hyde performances from one game to the next.

I don’t disagree that we definately don’t help ourselves in some of the things we do. But on the other hand you don’t factor in at all the opposition, they are 2nd and 3rd for a reason, maybe they are doing things off the ball to disrupt how we want to play thus making us look pretty poor? They are probably better than other teams at doing it hence why they’re so high in the table.

It’s unfair not to factor it in imo, not everything can be the players/managers fault. It’s impossible that every single defeat is down to us making mistakes with no credit at all going to the opposition who will have spent all week planning how to beat us.

We are going to lose games, we are going to play badly, it’s just football and it’s just what happens and we can’t melt down and write the whole season off everytime it does. 

[Changing Times 15,960 23k]

1 hour ago, LinoJo3 said:

It’s unfair not to factor it in imo, not everything can be the players/managers fault. It’s impossible that every single defeat is down to us making mistakes with no credit at all going to the opposition who will have spent all week planning how to beat us.

There's some truth to all that mate but having seen the second goal we conceded, I think that is entirely down to Carrick, and a couple of the players.  A straight ball through the lines because we refuse to have a player protecting our back four again  Howson is actually back but over to the left, and further back than some of the defenders.  Then we have Engel once again playing the opposition onside like he's never played a game of football before.  Repeated mistakes have to be down to us although I dare say that opposition coaches have seen enough of them now to try and create those mistakes with their own play.