2 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

We are on a generally upward curve 

While I agree with many of the other sentiments you've expressed tonight, this sounds a bit rose-tinted. We've got a squad full of might-bes and (I suspect in a few cases) never-will-bes, some of whom have potential but some of whom (Silvera, Greenwood, Lath) almost certainly aren't up to a play-off push, which even bloody Pulis managed in successive seasons. We have a far weaker squad than last season. We have a young manager who admittedly has time on his side but seems Karanka-like in his reluctance to make meaningful changes when Plan A isn't working, and we all know how quickly that gets sussed out by opposition managers.

We have an injury -ravaged squad (itself a cause for real concern and searching questions) with a number of struggling project players who demonstrably can't turn in consistent performances even against the weakest teams in the league. We haven't brought in loan signings of the calibre we did previously, and we're clearly paper-thin in parts of the squad, with several players also going away on international duty for most of January and February. We're the most wasteful team in the league when it comes to scoring, and for every Leicester, there's been two Sheffield Wednesdays or todays.

Compared to last season, which is probably the most valid reference point we have, in what measurable way are we on an upward curve? It's not a trick question or a gotcha - I genuinely would like to hear a positive take on where the club is at, since I feel anything other than treading water in mid-table will be beyond us without major signings next month. And since we keep hearing there isn't much money available, despite selling the likes of Tav and letting Archer/Giles/Ramsay go, I'm not really sure how those essential players would be funded anyway.

Edited December 26, 20232 yr by RiseAgainst

3 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

While I agree with many of the other sentiments you've expressed tonight, this sounds a bit rose-tinted. We've got a squad full of might-bes and (I suspect in a few cases) never-will-bes, some of whom have potential but some of whom (Silvera, Greenwood, Lath) almost certainly aren't up to a play-off push, which even bloody Pulis managed in successive seasons. We have a far weaker squad than last season. We have a young manager who admittedly has time on his side but seems Karanka-like in his reluctance to make meaningful changes when Plan A isn't working, and we all know how quickly that gets sussed out by opposition managers.

We have an injury -ravaged squad (itself a cause for real concern and searching questions) with a number of struggling project players who demonstrably can't turn in consistent performances even against the weakest teams in the league. We haven't brought in loan signings of the calibre we did previously, and we're clearly paper-thin in parts of the squad, with several players also going away on international duty for most of January and February. We're the most wasteful team in the league when it comes to scoring, and for every Leicester, there's been two Sheffield Wednesdays or todays.

Compared to last season, which is probably the most valid reference point we have, in what measurable way are we on an upward curve? It's not a trick question or a gotcha - I genuinely would like to hear a positive take on where the club is at, since I feel anything other than treading water in mid-table will be beyond us without major signings next month. And since we keep hearing there isn't much money available, despite selling the likes of Tav and letting Archer/Giles/Ramsay go, I'm not really a

Sure how those essential players would be funded.

Because since pulis got us to the play offs in 2018 (with a team worth around £50m) we’ve been on a downward trajectory. Pulis left us in a mess the following season and the disaster that was “the golden thread” followed. A rescue mission from Warnock followed by midtable treading lasted another season until we got wilder.

Since then we almost nipped in the play offs, followed by Carrick who got us back there for the first time in 5 years. The problem was half the team was on loan, so we’ve now refreshed the team and clearly tried to cost cut aswell, despite all that and a shocking injury list we’re still only 3 points off the play offs.

We have a bright young manager who’s taking a bit of a rag tag team and getting them playing some decent football. As for calling us ‘wasteful’ I guess it depends how you wanna look at it? I see it as a positive that we’re making so many chances, it means we could get it all to click with minimal additions in January.

Would you rather us not be creating them chances and still be in midtable with a warnock type manager? 
 

We’re playing entertaining football and aren’t a million miles away from being serious contenders for the play offs again. I’m enjoying watching us again, when we concede we no longer lose by default, you can guarantee every game we will have a few chances to score, we have some really promising young talent at the club. 
 

Honestly I find it baffling that after sitting through pulis, woodgate and warnock we’re still getting people moaning “oh the set pieces/oh we don’t score every single chance we create/oh we didn’t replace £40m worth of player like for like/oh some other pointless nitpicked bs to moan about wahhh wahhh wahhh”.

Ffs just stop taking it so serious and enjoy it, you’ll soon be moaning if we went back to some mind numbing clean sheet merchant and Gibson trying to get George friend and Clayton back.

What an incredibly frustrating match. Tactically we were set up well as we had a very good shape, kept hold of the ball well, didn't give any corners away and generally managed the game really well as Rotherham weren't able to drag us into a scrap as we won our aerial duels and protected our box very well. It was far more of an organised performance than the chaos we've seen far too often in away games at Plymouth, Leeds and Bristol City. If we play this sort of game away from home, we'll win the vast majority throughout the course of a season. We were just let down by a distinct lack of quality infront of goal and, as often happens in the Championship, when you don't take your chances you get caught with a massively unfair sucker punch.

Just incase it wasn't clear beforehand, that's exactly why we need to sign at least one high quality striker in the upcoming transfer window. This January and next summer our aim has got to be to increase the number of quality attackers in our team. Out of all our many wingers, #10's and strikers there's only McGree who I'd consider good quality. I rate Rogers potential very highly but he's not ready to be relied upon as a starting option yet. Similar with Lath as he's very raw. Crooks is ok but we should be aiming for better quality. Jones fundamentally lacks the ability to convert chances and isn't the solution at RW for us - it's probably unfair but whenever he misses a chance I can't help but think that someone like Aaron Ramsey would've converted it comfortably. Coburn isn't anywhere ready to start for a team chasing promotion. Greenwood is poor at linking up moves as the ball always gets stuck under his feet before losing possession so there's a lot to improve on there. Silvera's shooting is incredibly inconsistent, but there's potential there. Forss is injury prone and isn't a natural fit at RW. Gilbert is way off it. All-in-all the point I'm making is that our attacking options aren't particularly good. There's loads of options, some with good potential, but ultimately there's not a great deal of quality at the moment. If I was to rate them individually out of 10, the vast majority would get 6 to 6.5, with only McGree being above that at 7.5. At the end of this season we need to be ruthless in moving out the players that simply aren't good enough as we're carrying far too many of them at the moment.

Fortunately the quality of teams from 5th downwards is pretty average so the play offs are still well and truly within our reach. Even more so if we have a productive January transfer window and hopefully see some players step up a few levels.

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by p_mards

A frustrating performance but not a bad one I'd say.  Bad is what we served up a couple of months back at Sheff Wed, this game was nothing like that.  We dominated the game but couldn't put the ball in the back of the net.  They did nothing but then scored a complete fluke.  I haven't read through the thread but I hope nobody is giving Glover grief for that as there was naff all he could do about it. 

We've played worse and won this season, which isn't necessarily a good thing but at least puts a little perspective on the result.  At the moment we're a team who'll win one then lose one.  I know that's not literally the case but we've won 10 and lost 11 this season so it's about right for what we are.

21 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

A frustrating performance but not a bad one I'd say.  Bad is what we served up a couple of months back at Sheff Wed, this game was nothing like that.  We dominated the game but couldn't put the ball in the back of the net.  They did nothing but then scored a complete fluke.  I haven't read through the thread but I hope nobody is giving Glover grief for that as there was naff all he could do about it. 

We've played worse and won this season, which isn't necessarily a good thing but at least puts a little perspective on the result.  At the moment we're a team who'll win one then lose one.  I know that's not literally the case but we've won 10 and lost 11 this season so it's about right for what we are.

I don’t even think the performance was frustrating, mainly just the finishing. We dominated in every area, did ok out wide, put some good balls into the box and picked out players in a crowded area. 
 

We had to break down basically their full team and even though they sat so deep we still created some really good chances and were denied a stonewall penalty. I watched till my stream went off and was surprised to see the negativity after I’d just watched us play pretty well..

Yeah okay watching it again their goal wasn't Glovers fault. I overreacted just a tiny bit 🥴

Didn't put anything in here yesterday as was raging after giving up the whole day to see us do a"typical" Boro... Match emotion etc. 

Agree with CT now perspective (and no 🍻) has returned). We played ok, always been a home game issue when poor teams pack the defense against us. Rarely seen it away tho. Rotherham did it well. But even so we had nearly a dozen great opportunities to score. It felt to me that the type of chances fell to the wrong player.... Bear with me. Silvera 2nd half, Greenwood is much more adept at running in on goal and slotting past the keeper. Greenwoods chances, Rogers is much calmer when picking a spot from inside 10 yards when the chance comes at him quickly. Jones, side foot shots, just needs a boot through them (probably Forss - yes I know he's out) ...

Yes Carrick carries the can but as a few have said, on another day we win that by a few and the ref and the fluke matter not.

Given the injuries and international call ups, the defence is set, bar hopefully the addition of Worral. Midfield we have Hackney and O'Brien to take up the 2 slots. What we need is a great loan aka Archer style asap. Throw a finisher in to that game and we would have had a great Boxing Day

Utb

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by MarkT73

We must be high in the league in terms of "just one of those games" as we seem to have them far too often.

We are bemoaning missed chances and rightly so but all teams miss glorious chances as well, the trouble from what I have been watching of late and perhaps some of you guys have noticed as well is that we are simply not creating enough chances during a game so when the likes of Greenwood misses two golden opportunities in two games his misses are highlighted and rued upon post match.

We are carrying too many players who for some reason seem to be afraid to get into the game and be more creative especially when we know they are capable. The fight from some is very noticeable. There are comments about some playing in the wrong division that is a bit harsh but they are being allowed to get onto the pitch with no remedial processes being evident from the coaching staff.

Ok moan over now it is your turn to moan again

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/13037848/rotherham-1-0-middlesbrough-championship-highlights

How can anyone enjoy this? (if you are a Boro fan)

I think yesterday was just “one of them”. A fluke of a goal and not taking our chances when they came. Certainly highlights our lack of a clinical goalscorer. However, we are on an upward trajectory, a full first team squad out injured and still only 3 points off the play offs. If we can cling onto the top 6 by the end of January and bring in the right players/ get players back from injury, we will be there or there abouts. Utb 

6 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

I don’t even think the performance was frustrating, mainly just the finishing. We dominated in every area, did ok out wide, put some good balls into the box and picked out players in a crowded area. 
 

We had to break down basically their full team and even though they sat so deep we still created some really good chances and were denied a stonewall penalty. I watched till my stream went off and was surprised to see the negativity after I’d just watched us play pretty well..

I think the negativity was mostly down to our crap finishing. Understandable when its so frustrating to lose a game like that.

As you say, that one facet aside we played quite well. That was the only area we let ourselves down. But you usually get punished if you don't take your chances and thats exactly what happened.

Although to put some context on it, Rotherham are having a horrible season and are bottom of the table for a reason. To an extent Boro were probably allowed to dominate and play their game. Which just makes it that much harder to take. 

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by AnglianRed

10 hours ago, SimonD said:

Mate the table is lying!!! 

Woody...what are you doing on here? Does your boss know?

1 hour ago, Downsouth said:

We must be high in the league in terms of "just one of those games" as we seem to have them far too often.

We are bemoaning missed chances and rightly so but all teams miss glorious chances as well, the trouble from what I have been watching of late and perhaps some of you guys have noticed as well is that we are simply not creating enough chances during a game so when the likes of Greenwood misses two golden opportunities in two games his misses are highlighted and rued upon post match.

We are carrying too many players who for some reason seem to be afraid to get into the game and be more creative especially when we know they are capable. The fight from some is very noticeable. There are comments about some playing in the wrong division that is a bit harsh but they are being allowed to get onto the pitch with no remedial processes being evident from the coaching staff.

Ok moan over now it is your turn to moan again

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/13037848/rotherham-1-0-middlesbrough-championship-highlights

How can anyone enjoy this? (if you are a Boro fan)

Well Greenwood's attempts are certainly the main talking points, but lets not forget Silvera's "Hollywood" efforts that were closer to rugby penalties.

As well as some players' lack of confidence (?) in being more creative, I think another issue is simply down to poor decision making. Numerous times we see players attempting unlikely shots, when they would be better passing to a team mate, or just recycling possession to wait for an opening.

We seem to get the balance wrong all over the pitch. In the middle of the park, or our own half, we just play possession football for long periods, instead of trying to build an attack. Then when we get in and around the opposition penalty area, our players often shoot when they should pass and vice versa.

Example from yesterday: we had 19 attempts at goal, but only 5 on target.

Don't get me wrong, Carrickball seems to be serving us reasonably well on the whole, but these issues are noticeable and frustrating in some games.

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by AnglianRed

I do feel Carrick got a few tactical decisions wrong and we would of been better served to start physical forwards for a physical game. Like Crooks, Coburn would of been more suited to it. Also don't get why Engel didn't start when he got the assist at the weekend and he is the best attacking passer of the ball we have. Bangura is alright but he doesn't have the vision to play defence splitting passes like Engel can. 

Frustrating game yesterday but if we continue to play like that we will win more than not. Somebody who knows what the net is for would be a very welcome addition in January 

4 minutes ago, DurhamRed said:

I do feel Carrick got a few tactical decisions wrong and we would of been better served to start physical forwards for a physical game. Like Crooks, Coburn would of been more suited to it. Also don't get why Engel didn't start when he got the assist at the weekend and he is the best attacking passer of the ball we have. Bangura is alright but he doesn't have the vision to play defence splitting passes like Engel can. 

Then if we'd lost we'd have had people complaining that Carrick changed a forward line that played so well vs West brom, he can't really win. Plus coburn is clearly not fit to start and crooks has been awful for weeks, potentially also because he's not fit

 I'll say it again, Carrick can only work with the tools he's got. If the players he has can't put the ball in the net from.the chances we've created, what can he do?