JCWamma 499 286 Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 1 hour ago, Changing Times said: I didn't see the first half so can't comment on that but we didn't cruise the second half. The first half of the second half we were fairly poor but thankfully we got a goal out of nothing, and that changed the dynamic of the game a bit. I was a little surprised at how positive people were after the game, I think perhaps that had more to do with the result against Chelsea than the performance against Millwall to be honest. In different circumstances yesterday would have been viewed quite differently, a win against a poor side with a disjointed performance. A bit like the game at Huddersfield in some respects. I don't think that's fair. Millwall were very good for large swathes of the game. It's only once they went behind their heads properly dropped and we were comfortable. I was impressed by their press, and the way they dominated possession shows they had something. If Watmore was clinical they'd have buried us. I think a lot of the optimism comes from the fact that Millwall weren't a poor side, and we were leggy beyond belief after Tuesday, yet we were still able to win and end up looking comfortable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD 1,177 1.3k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 4 hours ago, Erimus74 said: Sorry to hear that SimonD, hope the result is a little bit of relief for you & that things improve for you & your company Thanks mate. It’s certainly kept me going through the weekend. I’ve watched the highlights about 20 times! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erimus74 4,287 4.4k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 11 minutes ago, SimonD said: Thanks mate. It’s certainly kept me going through the weekend. I’ve watched the highlights about 20 times! Nice to hear & good luck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam P 481 1.9k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 (edited) . Edited January 14, 2024 by Adam P Wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changing Times 14,215 21.3k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 7 minutes ago, JCWamma said: I don't think that's fair. Millwall were very good for large swathes of the game. It's only once they went behind their heads properly dropped and we were comfortable. I was impressed by their press, and the way they dominated possession shows they had something. If Watmore was clinical they'd have buried us. I think a lot of the optimism comes from the fact that Millwall weren't a poor side, and we were leggy beyond belief after Tuesday, yet we were still able to win and end up looking comfortable. They are 16th in the league with 8 wins. They're a poor side (relatively speaking), same as Huddersfield who we also struggled against. I'm not disputing that they played well yesterday but that's in part owing to us not playing well, and turning in inconsistent performances as we have all season long. To put it into a little context, under Woodgate when we were a bad side, we had 34 points after 27 games, Millwall have 32. I don't really see how you can say that if Watmore was clinical they'd have buried us but we were able to win looking comfortable? Clearly those two things contradict each other. We're in a league that has about 4 truly decent teams in it, and the rest of us are somewhere between that and not very good. It's one of the things that gives me hope for the play offs this season, as just like last season the competition isn't really that strong, and a good run could see anybody there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCWamma 499 286 Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 2 minutes ago, Changing Times said: They are 16th in the league with 8 wins. They're a poor side (relatively speaking), same as Huddersfield who we also struggled against. I'm not disputing that they played well yesterday but that's in part owing to us not playing well, and turning in inconsistent performances as we have all season long. To put it into a little context, under Woodgate when we were a bad side, we had 34 points after 27 games, Millwall have 32. I don't really see how you can say that if Watmore was clinical they'd have buried us but we were able to win looking comfortable? Clearly those two things contradict each other. We're in a league that has about 4 truly decent teams in it, and the rest of us are somewhere between that and not very good. It's one of the things that gives me hope for the play offs this season, as just like last season the competition isn't really that strong, and a good run could see anybody there. They're low in the table but they were unbeaten in 5 league games including 3 wins on the bounce. I'm not judging them on how they've done in the previous 26 games, I'm judging by what I saw when we played them yesterday. I said we were only comfortable after we took the lead, which, we were. Watmore had lots of opportunities to score prior to that, which is the period in which they could've buried us and we didn't look comfortable. I'm not saying Millwall belong in the Ipswich + Relegated Teams group, to be clear. I'm saying they played well for a good chunk of yesterday's match, and I don't think it's fair to write off the win as "only Millwall" when the actual team we faced looked much more dangerous against us than, for example, Chelsea did. And probably moreso than Villa did either. It was a potential banana skin against a team that were up for it, and despite risking losing for a good portion of the match, we ended up winning and looking comfortable. The positivity makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changing Times 14,215 21.3k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 3 minutes ago, JCWamma said: They're low in the table but they were unbeaten in 5 league games including 3 wins on the bounce. I'm not judging them on how they've done in the previous 26 games, I'm judging by what I saw when we played them yesterday. I said we were only comfortable after we took the lead, which, we were. Watmore had lots of opportunities to score prior to that, which is the period in which they could've buried us and we didn't look comfortable. I'm not saying Millwall belong in the Ipswich + Relegated Teams group, to be clear. I'm saying they played well for a good chunk of yesterday's match, and I don't think it's fair to write off the win as "only Millwall" when the actual team we faced looked much more dangerous against us than, for example, Chelsea did. And probably moreso than Villa did either. It was a potential banana skin against a team that were up for it, and despite risking losing for a good portion of the match, we ended up winning and looking comfortable. The positivity makes sense to me. Ok but I am judging them on what they've done over the season, and not what they managed in a few games. Come the end of the season, the league table over 46 games decides where people finish, not a form table for 5 games. All you're saying here is a team below us could have beaten us easily if they'd taken their chances. This doesn't make me feel better about our own performance, and it also doesn't make me think that Millwall are better than they currently are. It was a difficult game because we aren't that good either, not because Millwall are better than I happen to think they are. We've already lost 12 games this season, that's more than we lost when we finished 4th under Karanka as a comparison, it's only three fewer than we lost last season as well. We are a largely inconsistent team, who can win or lose against just about anyone, and Millwall are a worse team than we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCWamma 499 286 Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 1 minute ago, Changing Times said: Ok but I am judging them on what they've done over the season, and not what they managed in a few games. Come the end of the season, the league table over 46 games decides where people finish, not a form table for 5 games. All you're saying here is a team below us could have beaten us easily if they'd taken their chances. This doesn't make me feel better about our own performance, and it also doesn't make me think that Millwall are better than they currently are. It was a difficult game because we aren't that good either, not because Millwall are better than I happen to think they are. We've already lost 12 games this season, that's more than we lost when we finished 4th under Karanka as a comparison, it's only three fewer than we lost last season as well. We are a largely inconsistent team, who can win or lose against just about anyone, and Millwall are a worse team than we are. I'm usually in agreement with you on this stuff CT but I don't think it's reasonable to say we shouldn't be happy that we beat a team that played well because normally they don't. How they played against us is what matters for how pleased we should be that we beat them. On a macro level I agree with you about where the club is at, we're inconsistent and can win or lose most games without surprising me. But watching that game, I'm pleased we won because Millwall played well for the first 60 minutes and put us under lots of pressure, but we still got the win. I'm not going to temper my enjoyment of that just because on average Millwall don't usually play as well as they did yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changing Times 14,215 21.3k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 2 minutes ago, JCWamma said: I'm usually in agreement with you on this stuff CT but I don't think it's reasonable to say we shouldn't be happy that we beat a team that played well because normally they don't. How they played against us is what matters for how pleased we should be that we beat them. On a macro level I agree with you about where the club is at, we're inconsistent and can win or lose most games without surprising me. But watching that game, I'm pleased we won because Millwall played well for the first 60 minutes and put us under lots of pressure, but we still got the win. I'm not going to temper my enjoyment of that just because on average Millwall don't usually play as well as they did yesterday. I'm pleased we won as well mate but we didn't play particularly well in doing so. We've played two games in a row where our opponents lousy finishing has helped us win both of the games. Given the fact that we've done our own share of lousy finishing this season I'm certainly not complaining about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCWamma 499 286 Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 Just now, Changing Times said: I'm pleased we won as well mate but we didn't play particularly well in doing so. We've played two games in a row where our opponents lousy finishing has helped us win both of the games. Given the fact that we've done our own share of lousy finishing this season I'm certainly not complaining about that. I think we're pretty much in agreement on this, to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverbefore 13,623 28.1k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 1 minute ago, Changing Times said: I'm pleased we won as well mate but we didn't play particularly well in doing so. We've played two games in a row where our opponents lousy finishing has helped us win both of the games. Given the fact that we've done our own share of lousy finishing this season I'm certainly not complaining about that. I know it's got its problems, but the xg in the game was 1.16 - 2.31. If we won the game because of lousy finishing from our opponents then we'd expect to see theirs above ours. Instead we significantly out performed them. We created far better chances, and scored 3 of them. That's why we won the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changing Times 14,215 21.3k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Neverbefore said: I know it's got its problems, but the xg in the game was 1.16 - 2.31. If we won the game because of lousy finishing from our opponents then we'd expect to see theirs above ours. Instead we significantly out performed them. We created far better chances, and scored 3 of them. That's why we won the game. We got lucky with the Jones one though, I think it's fair to say that. If that had been one of our player's defending like that then we'd have been all over them. I think we created decent chances as well mate but I also don't think we played especially well over the course of the game. I would go as far as to say we've played better and lost this season, the Rotherham game, the Hull game perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverbefore 13,623 28.1k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 Just now, Changing Times said: We got lucky with the Jones one though, I think it's fair to say that. If that had been one of our player defending like that then we'd have been all over them. I think we created decent chances as well mate but I also don't think we played especially well over the course of the game. I would go as far as to say we've played better and lost this season, the Rotherham game, the Hull game perhaps? We got unlucky with a couple of other chances though, rogers in the first half was a big one. Anyway, mostly agree with your assessment of the game, we struggled in periods in the first half and the start of the second half, but I don't think they missed any particular guilt edged chances. And I think last 30 we were as comfortable as we've been all season. I said at the time I thought they looked exhausted and had ran themselves into the ground and they never laid a glove on us really after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changing Times 14,215 21.3k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 Just now, Neverbefore said: We got unlucky with a couple of other chances though, rogers in the first half was a big one. Anyway, mostly agree with your assessment of the game, we struggled in periods in the first half and the start of the second half, but I don't think they missed any particular guilt edged chances. And I think last 30 we were as comfortable as we've been all season. I said at the time I thought they looked exhausted and had ran themselves into the ground and they never laid a glove on us really after that. Having not seen the first half I assumed by the way people were talking that they had missed chances, that wasn't me saying they had to be clear. Yeah I thought they ran of steam as well but much like we did against Coventry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverbefore 13,623 28.1k Posted January 14, 2024 Share Posted January 14, 2024 1 minute ago, Changing Times said: Having not seen the first half I assumed by the way people were talking that they had missed chances, that wasn't me saying they had to be clear. Yeah I thought they ran of steam as well but much like we did against Coventry. Tbf most of that xg for them came in the first half. They did create a little then but nothing that they 100% should have scored from. What I am most pleased about is carricks flexibility to be honest. The result was good away from home against a team away in decent form, but the past part for me was his subs, how he killed the game, changed the shape about a bit, used Clarke as a way to shut what little they had left down. He hasn't done that before really and he probably semi stumbled upon it due to the injuries against the two prem teams, but it feels like he has discovered a new side to this squad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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