Chelsea vs Middlesbrough (League Cup Semi Final - 2nd Leg) 6-1 (Rogers)

[estonpidge 1,860 6.5k]

Difference in the 2 games is simple, at ours they missed all the chances we gifted them, at theirs they buried them.
Understand the drive to play from the back but keep the press honest and go long when you need to, losing the ball 50yds from goal is better than 20yds.

a week and a half to get over this, Sunderland next and a big chance to put smiles back on faces, C'mon Boro

[Humpty 5,183 10.6k]

Not interested in all this ‘plucky Boro’ and back slapping nonsense that’s going about. We were ***. Carrick got it wrong. Engel, Clarke, Barlaser, Crooks, Howson and Hackney were awful. You can’t have that many poor performances in a league cup semi and expect to get a result. Chelsea were clearly much the better side, just like they were in the first leg. No denying that but we handed them progression.
 

What’s also annoyed me is the 5 points we’ve dropped against Coventry and Rotherham in the lead up. That would have us tucked up nicely in the play offs.

Edited January 24, 2024 by Humpty

[SouthernSmoggie 5,315 7k]

20 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Not interested in all this ‘plucky Boro’ and back slapping nonsense that’s going about. We were ***. Carrick got it wrong. Engel, Clarke, Barlaser, Crooks, Howson and Hackney were awful. You can’t have that many poor performances in a league cup semi and expect to get a result. Chelsea were clearly much the better side, just like they were on the first leg.
 

What’s also annoyed me is the 5 points we’ve dropped against Coventry and Rotherham in the lead up. That would have us tucked up nicely in the play offs.

I expected to lose but that was pretty much as bad as it could have possibly gone. The embarrassing part is Chelsea didn't even have to be good or work particularly hard. They just casually tucked away the endless chances we gifted them, even later in the game when they'd started resting key players for kids. 

Chelsea are a Premier League team with far batter players than us, but we're not talking about an all conquering City or Liverpool side here. I know we had injuries but a top half Championship side should be able to dig into a low block and make it difficult for them to score. We had a mostly fit defence and midfield. At least not concede 6 ffs. Neville spotted the problem in our set up while it was still 0-0, Carrick reacted once the game was gone. 

I'm still more annoyed about failing to beat Rotherham twice though. We need to make good use of this two week break and come back with a fitter squad and good attitude, as a loss at home to Sunderland puts the fans right on the teams back I reckon - especially if Rogers is sold. 

[AnglianRed 7,883 18.1k]

Ouch. Glad I stopped watching when I did.

Had a feeling it might be a bad night...but wow. Chelsea didn't just batter us, they served us up with chips, mushy peas and a pot of tartare sauce.

Think I'm with Humpty and SouthernSmoggie in that Boro ought to have made more of a game of it. The first 2 goals I saw were mostly down to poor defending...from what I've read we didn't exactly make it hard for Chelsea to get the rest either.

Mostly disappointed because Boro as a club looked terrible on a big stage and that kind of result could have an impact on squad morale. Winning this tie was always going to be a big ask, but I was hoping the lads would at least give a good account of themselves.

 

We really need a good result against Sunderland now. The players have got plenty of time to reflect and rediscover their mojo. Carrick and the coaches also have time to work with the squad. Hope they use it wisely...

Edited January 24, 2024 by AnglianRed

[Barnaby 1,164 2.3k]

10 hours ago, osvaldo said:

Fans were amazing tonight. Some players (mostly Engel & barlaser) showed they are miles off premier league quality tonight. Hopefully lessons are learnt and we use it to push on for the playoffs. Thought Rogers looked very good

You still want premier league football? I'm not sure I could handle that sort of hammering every week...I honestly think our owner knows that too...we don't have billions to keep us in the Premier league

[TeaCider24 18,385 23.4k]

I'm still more angry about Saturday than last night, always expected to get beaten and I don't think there was any shame in losing, the manner of the defeat is what's harder to take, just disappointed that the gameplan and performance was so bad.

 

[AnglianRed 7,883 18.1k]

22 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

You still want premier league football? I'm not sure I could handle that sort of hammering every week...I honestly think our owner knows that too...we don't have billions to keep us in the Premier league

The squad would get a significant overhaul if we got promoted.

We wouldn't go on a spending spree like we did under Robson and McLaren, but more (hopefully) than we did under Karanka. 

There is a balance to be struck and other clubs survive without spending Chelsea or Man City type money.

 

[wilsoncgp 10,212 20k]

A lot was made of the Howson stuff last night on the tele but I think the only thing that genuinely bothered me about it was that Dijksteel was on the bench and I have to wonder whether he could have played more of the game. He was just back into the squad again so I'm not sure if he was considered fit enough to play.

I can see what Carrick was trying to do with the 11 on the pitch, though. It might have looked bad defensively but there was definitely an air of positive attacking mindset in the call, in relation to a quick transition to help us get up the pitch without too much movement in our own backline, something which I think there was good evidence of in the first 15 minutes of the game at least. When we retrieved the ball, Howson and Barlaser were in good positions to help us get control of the ball and in terms of positive attacking moves, Howson was looking good early on.

Neville was saying we should have had VDB inside to deal with Enzo, that part of it I have no problem with in and of itself as I think VDB is a better defender than Howson. But, whilst there was little evidence of him being a threat on the night, we had Mudryk to worry about on our right hand side. Neville was suggesting that instead of Howson dropping into the middle to watch for Enzo, 'a centre-mid' should be pulling out wide to cover for Mudryk to allow the right-back to tuck inside. He never specifically said it should be Howson but honestly, who else would it have been? Barlaser? Crooks? Hackney? There's nobody there in those options that sounds good, particularly in relation to the positive turnaround in possession if we got it.

The other possible player to pick that position up could have been Forss but again, I think we didn't want to lose any of the positive impact he could have had further up the pitch by dragging him into a match-long defensive covering battle with Mudryk. Again, in transition, I think there was evidence this was the right call with the idea of attacking Chelsea and not just sitting in and defending for 90 minutes. With hindsight, if we knew Mudryk was going to be the worst player on the pitch before kick-off then perhaps we could have handled things differently but that would have been naive to the extreme.

Just on the most important goals of the night, too, both of the first 2 goals in my opinion were individual mistakes from Howson. Not a tactical mistake, just an individual mistake. The first one is maybe harsh but he never came to the ball under Broja's control with any sense of clearing it with one touch, he tried to control the ball out of his possession and ended up putting it into his own goal. The opportunity was there to clear it, in my opinion. The second one was worse though. Neville spoke about Enzo's clever movement to end up in the position to score the second but if you watch it back, Howson is in a perfect position to deal with him pretty much the whole time the ball is in the box and whilst Enzo does shift towards Howson then away, I never once saw Howson turning and looking out to see that Enzo was coming to attack the box. Particularly when the topic of conversation was "it should be VDB in that position", if VDB also didn't know where Enzo was then he would have done the same thing as Howson and been left flapping at nothing.

From that point though, the tension in the game on Chelsea's shoulders was lost, we lost what fluency we had built in the first 15 minutes, we were sloppy and they were on it and wanted to put the game to bed. I think from the point of the 2nd goal, the mentality shift was what led to what came next, particularly the next 2 goals in the half. It's a shame but there was always a likelihood it would take place. And don't get me wrong, I don't think the tactical setup was perfect, I have questions but I think I can see what we were trying to do and why we were trying to do it. Unfortunately, it was always going to be a test at Stamford Bridge to come up with something perfect.

[Rob 6,489 9.9k]

 

4 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

A lot was made of the Howson stuff last night on the tele but I think the only thing that genuinely bothered me about it was that Dijksteel was on the bench and I have to wonder whether he could have played more of the game. He was just back into the squad again so I'm not sure if he was considered fit enough to play.

I can see what Carrick was trying to do with the 11 on the pitch, though. It might have looked bad defensively but there was definitely an air of positive attacking mindset in the call, in relation to a quick transition to help us get up the pitch without too much movement in our own backline, something which I think there was good evidence of in the first 15 minutes of the game at least. When we retrieved the ball, Howson and Barlaser were in good positions to help us get control of the ball and in terms of positive attacking moves, Howson was looking good early on.

Neville was saying we should have had VDB inside to deal with Enzo, that part of it I have no problem with in and of itself as I think VDB is a better defender than Howson. But, whilst there was little evidence of him being a threat on the night, we had Mudryk to worry about on our right hand side. Neville was suggesting that instead of Howson dropping into the middle to watch for Enzo, 'a centre-mid' should be pulling out wide to cover for Mudryk to allow the right-back to tuck inside. He never specifically said it should be Howson but honestly, who else would it have been? Barlaser? Crooks? Hackney? There's nobody there in those options that sounds good, particularly in relation to the positive turnaround in possession if we got it.

The other possible player to pick that position up could have been Forss but again, I think we didn't want to lose any of the positive impact he could have had further up the pitch by dragging him into a match-long defensive covering battle with Mudryk. Again, in transition, I think there was evidence this was the right call with the idea of attacking Chelsea and not just sitting in and defending for 90 minutes. With hindsight, if we knew Mudryk was going to be the worst player on the pitch before kick-off then perhaps we could have handled things differently but that would have been naive to the extreme.

Just on the most important goals of the night, too, both of the first 2 goals in my opinion were individual mistakes from Howson. Not a tactical mistake, just an individual mistake. The first one is maybe harsh but he never came to the ball under Broja's control with any sense of clearing it with one touch, he tried to control the ball out of his possession and ended up putting it into his own goal. The opportunity was there to clear it, in my opinion. The second one was worse though. Neville spoke about Enzo's clever movement to end up in the position to score the second but if you watch it back, Howson is in a perfect position to deal with him pretty much the whole time the ball is in the box and whilst Enzo does shift towards Howson then away, I never once saw Howson turning and looking out to see that Enzo was coming to attack the box. Particularly when the topic of conversation was "it should be VDB in that position", if VDB also didn't know where Enzo was then he would have done the same thing as Howson and been left flapping at nothing.

From that point though, the tension in the game on Chelsea's shoulders was lost, we lost what fluency we had built in the first 15 minutes, we were sloppy and they were on it and wanted to put the game to bed. I think from the point of the 2nd goal, the mentality shift was what led to what came next, particularly the next 2 goals in the half. It's a shame but there was always a likelihood it would take place. And don't get me wrong, I don't think the tactical setup was perfect, I have questions but I think I can see what we were trying to do and why we were trying to do it. Unfortunately, it was always going to be a test at Stamford Bridge to come up with something perfect.

yeah if we were going to play 5 at the back i would of rather had Diksteel at RB and kept howson in midfield (or bench him) and build the 5 with all defenders in their best positions.

saying that - although they abused howson playing out of position and showed him up at times, I do not think we would of won still keeping howson in position. 

just wasn't our night and he clearly had them all fired up to rectify the embarrassment they had at our ground. this is like his one saving grace for a season of not doing much at all. 

 

[Rob 6,489 9.9k]

should be exiled for life 

[wilsoncgp 10,212 20k]

4 minutes ago, Rob said:

 

yeah if we were going to play 5 at the back i would of rather had Diksteel at RB and kept howson in midfield (or bench him) and build the 5 with all defenders in their best positions.

saying that - although they abused howson playing out of position and showed him up at times, I do not think we would of won still keeping howson in position. 

just wasn't our night and he clearly had them all fired up to rectify the embarrassment they had at our ground. this is like his one saving grace for a season of not doing much at all. 

 

The game was always against us and we were always going to have to do something special to come out of it and get to Wembley.

But yeah, that's what I mean by Dijksteel. Put him into RWB when defending, VDB is inside as a third CB, Howson is then in pretty much exactly the same position in transition. It's all about how fit Dijksteel is and Jones being injured did force the hand a little bit to make that kind of decision.

Something about that right-hand side for us was always going to be a risk unless Dijksteel was fit from that squad, though.

[thomas 612 2.7k]

2 hours ago, Johnny A said:

I reckon everybody I know over 60 is screaming at the tv, when teams are tip-tapping about in their own area, to launch the bloody thing up the field. Especially when the skill of the culprits is not all that great. At times Boro's short passing game was actually pretty slick, but after 10 minutes lack.of class was evident. Howson looked really good early on, but he must have beaten up Gary Neville's sister, given GN's slating of him.

Howson is great until he gets pressed and is against fast players, the min that happens its like playing with 10 men as he gets bypassed. This is kind of why we need a younger model this summer and make this howsom last season. I'm not picking on the guy he's been a great servant and always gives it a go but he's only going to get slower.

[AnglianRed 7,883 18.1k]

17 minutes ago, ITK said:

When will the wanted posters of Jordan Hugill be up around Middlesbrough?

You mean as in "Wanted Dead or Alive" - not wanted because we need new players, right? 

Though honestly with the way the game went, even having Jones available wouldn't have helped us much.

["KM" 2,360 15.5k]

23 minutes ago, ITK said:

When will the wanted posters of Jordan Hugill be up around Middlesbrough?

Would Jones have made that much of a difference last night? I don’t mean it in bad terms but we were just shocking all around. 

["KM" 2,360 15.5k]

4 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

You mean as in "Wanted Dead or Alive" - not wanted because we need new players, right? 

Though honestly with the way the game went, even having Jones available wouldn't have helped us much.