Preston v Boro 2-1 (Azaz)

[Bruce 1,955 1.7k]

47 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

there are a lot of "decent Championship" and "lower Championship" comments which to me means middling Championship with a few really good ones and a couple of League One assessments which adds up to a middling Championship side

Indeed. There are a fair few who look to have plenty of room to improve but for whatever reason (usually injuries) just haven't. We have, at best, flat-lined this season after a massive summer overhaul. Similar kind of season to Stoke who, like us, were one of the biggest non-parachute spenders in the summer. On the other hand, the biggest non-parachute spenders were Coventry and after a similar start to us they have developed nicely.

47 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

the team look about as organised as the Mad Hatters Tea Party at times, bereft of confidence and belief and as a consequence struggle to carry out instructions

Carrick was never my preferred choice as manager. I said at the time that Corberan and Edwards looked better. Still, we went all in on the Carrick and Scott show. I feel on balance that it will probably work out but I think Carrick has had a rude awakening this season. He's used to driving a Ferrari and is now having to make do with a Mondeo. He seems smart enough to learn quickly but I get tired of managers learning their trade with us.

[LinoJo3 3,893 11.2k]

1 hour ago, Bruce said:

Indeed. There are a fair few who look to have plenty of room to improve but for whatever reason (usually injuries) just haven't. We have, at best, flat-lined this season after a massive summer overhaul. Similar kind of season to Stoke who, like us, were one of the biggest non-parachute spenders in the summer. On the other hand, the biggest non-parachute spenders were Coventry and after a similar start to us they have developed nicely.

Carrick was never my preferred choice as manager. I said at the time that Corberan and Edwards looked better. Still, we went all in on the Carrick and Scott show. I feel on balance that it will probably work out but I think Carrick has had a rude awakening this season. He's used to driving a Ferrari and is now having to make do with a Mondeo. He seems smart enough to learn quickly but I get tired of managers learning their trade with us.

This has been a shambles of a season but it started in the summer and made worse by the injuries. I think it’s a bit harsh to judge the whole ‘project’ on this season, nobody complained about Carrick learning his trade last season, but now that gets forgotten because of what’s happened this season and totally ignoring last season. 
 

I blame it fully on the recruitment, I’ve said a hundred times on here now we signed way to many ‘could be/if/potential/might/hopefully’ type players. Even rogers wouldn’t make a difference if we kept him this season, the result last night wouldn’t have changed if he played. 
 

We’ve played most of the season trying to get promotion with about 6 players who would be bench players at any other promotion challenging team.

I know everyone makes jokes about us planning for next season etc, but looking at the state of the squad, the league, our position and form I think it’s a viable plan. I just don’t buy into this feeling that some magical striker was out there who’s club would magically sell him for what we can afford and he’d magically get us promoted by scoring bucket full of goals. People are literally criticising the club for not being reckless and going all in on some hopeful fairytale.

That said I do think this summer and next season is make or break for the Scott/Carrick project. We can’t go into next season with another rag tag team full of unproven potential. We need more McGrees and less Silveras.

[diggerlad07 3,804 2.5k]

28 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

This has been a shambles of a season but it started in the summer and made worse by the injuries. I think it’s a bit harsh to judge the whole ‘project’ on this season, nobody complained about Carrick learning his trade last season, but now that gets forgotten because of what’s happened this season and totally ignoring last season. 
 

I blame it fully on the recruitment, I’ve said a hundred times on here now we signed way to many ‘could be/if/potential/might/hopefully’ type players. Even rogers wouldn’t make a difference if we kept him this season, the result last night wouldn’t have changed if he played. 
 

We’ve played most of the season trying to get promotion with about 6 players who would be bench players at any other promotion challenging team.

I know everyone makes jokes about us planning for next season etc, but looking at the state of the squad, the league, our position and form I think it’s a viable plan. I just don’t buy into this feeling that some magical striker was out there who’s club would magically sell him for what we can afford and he’d magically get us promoted by scoring bucket full of goals. People are literally criticising the club for not being reckless and going all in on some hopeful fairytale.

That said I do think this summer and next season is make or break for the Scott/Carrick project. We can’t go into next season with another rag tag team full of unproven potential. We need more McGrees and less Silveras.

Brilliant post mate 👏 Think some blinkered fans on here will give you pelters for it though as they just blame Carrick for everything 

They forget last season how he turned a disaster season into an a really ducking exciting season where the dream nearly came true.

He's managing league 1 players and untried and untested

Massively been let down by Gibson and Scott past 2 windows.

Carrick has flaws like his subs too late but without him this season I think we would be just above relegation rather than 12pts safe 

Carrick won't be backed... Others weren't when Traore, Bamford, Tav, Spence, Akpom and most recently Rogers left for big money

[LinoJo3 3,893 11.2k]

12 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Brilliant post mate 👏 Think some blinkered fans on here will give you pelters for it though as they just blame Carrick for everything 

They forget last season how he turned a disaster season into an a really ducking exciting season where the dream nearly came true.

He's managing league 1 players and untried and untested

Massively been let down by Gibson and Scott past 2 windows.

Carrick has flaws like his subs too late but without him this season I think we would be just above relegation rather than 12pts safe 

Carrick won't be backed... Others weren't when Traore, Bamford, Tav, Spence, Akpom and most recently Rogers left for big money

That’s the thing though I don’t think you have to spend a fortune to replace players we’ve sold for a fortune. I’m not screaming for big name £10m+ players. We brought Mcgree and Azaz here for less than £6m combined I think, both statistically better than Rogers and at least in McGrees case far more influential on the pitch, while Azaz has started slowly he’s getting there now and at least we have the knowing that he’s done what we need him to do before.

Those are the type of signings I want, where you can look at his past 2 or 3 seasons form and have a bit of confidence that he can be a good player for us. 
 

Look at Lath for example, he was our big money buy and while you can see what he ‘can’ do, he’s rarely done it consistently over his career and he’s had one good season. It’s not so much a question over his talent, more that I don’t want us to build another push for promotion on those type of players, it’s just far to easy to go wrong.

I want 3/4/5 Azaz/Mcgree types and 1/2/3 rogers/silvera/VDB types like it should always be.

I also think it’s a mistake to turn our noses up at loans, it only bit us in the *** last time because all our decent players were loans. A couple of loans to supplement the team with possible out of reach players is perfectly reasonable.

[Changing Times 13,018 20.1k]

40 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

He's managing league 1 players and untried and untested

I don't think our summer business was especially good overall but this is nonsense mate.  Dieng, Smith, Ayling, Fry, Clarke, Lenihan, McNair, Howson, Hackney, Barlaser, O'Brien, Jones, Forss, McGree, Azaz, are not League One players.  We can say that VDB, Rogers, Silvera, Coburn, Greenwood, Engel, Bangura and Latte Lath are all untried/untested to a certain extent at least at this level but of those VDB has looked the business, Rogers, Silvera, Greenwood have all been up and down but have done enough to show that they aren't League One players either, and I think Latte Lath and Coburn have both done ok save for a few bad misses from Lath.  Of the two left backs, Engel has been poor defensively but looked ok going forward, and Bangura I just don't think we've seen enough of.  I wouldn't say we've got a single player in our squad who I'd put down as a League One player.  I don't know how many I'd say are top of the Championship players but they are certainly better than the league below in my opinion.

[diggerlad07 3,804 2.5k]

19 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

That’s the thing though I don’t think you have to spend a fortune to replace players we’ve sold for a fortune. I’m not screaming for big name £10m+ players. We brought Mcgree and Azaz here for less than £6m combined I think, both statistically better than Rogers and at least in McGrees case far more influential on the pitch, while Azaz has started slowly he’s getting there now and at least we have the knowing that he’s done what we need him to do before.

Those are the type of signings I want, where you can look at his past 2 or 3 seasons form and have a bit of confidence that he can be a good player for us. 
 

Look at Lath for example, he was our big money buy and while you can see what he ‘can’ do, he’s rarely done it consistently over his career and he’s had one good season. It’s not so much a question over his talent, more that I don’t want us to build another push for promotion on those type of players, it’s just far to easy to go wrong.

I want 3/4/5 Azaz/Mcgree types and 1/2/3 rogers/silvera/VDB types like it should always be.

I also think it’s a mistake to turn our noses up at loans, it only bit us in the *** last time because all our decent players were loans. A couple of loans to supplement the team with possible out of reach players is perfectly reasonable.

Once again I agree.

Brentford did it with players like Neal Maupay £2million but had few established seasons in France

Lath I think you pay that sort of money for a 1 season striker unfortunately . Engel not really a risk because he had a few consistent seasons

It's buying nearly half  a team of untested and potential players that frustrated me Silvera, Gilbert, Hoppe, Greenwood, Rogers, VDB , glover meant we were always going backwards.

Rogers and VDB have showed real quality but I only want us to sign 1 or 2 potential untested players per season and bed them in rather than signing 6 or 7 of them 

[diggerlad07 3,804 2.5k]

18 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I don't think our summer business was especially good overall but this is nonsense mate.  Dieng, Smith, Ayling, Fry, Clarke, Lenihan, McNair, Howson, Hackney, Barlaser, O'Brien, Jones, Forss, McGree, Azaz, are not League One players.  We can say that VDB, Rogers, Silvera, Coburn, Greenwood, Engel, Bangura and Latte Lath are all untried/untested to a certain extent at least at this level but of those VDB has looked the business, Rogers, Silvera, Greenwood have all been up and down but have done enough to show that they aren't League One players either, and I think Latte Lath and Coburn have both done ok save for a few bad misses from Lath.  Of the two left backs, Engel has been poor defensively but looked ok going forward, and Bangura I just don't think we've seen enough of.  I wouldn't say we've got a single player in our squad who I'd put down as a League One player.  I don't know how many I'd say are top of the Championship players but they are certainly better than the league below in my opinion.

Yeah I get that mate maybe I was being a bit extreme in saying league one players but we certainly don't have many players who would get into Leicesters, Leeds, Southampton, West Brom, Norwich and possibly Watfords team .

Mcgree, Dieng and Hackeney are obviously the stand outs along with VDB who will be off for big money before you know it

This squad just has no depth and suffering in top quality consistently.

Signings like Azaz are not risks. Imo he's going to be instrumental to us in seasons to come

We have far too many players like jones/forss who can be excellent on week and then go missing for 3 to 4 games

Edited February 15 by diggerlad07

[Changing Times 13,018 20.1k]

9 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

We have far too many players like jones/forss who can be excellent on week and then go missing for 3 to 4 games

So do most at this level, including West Brom, Norwich and Watford.  We did beat both Norwich and Watford on their own patch.

[diggerlad07 3,804 2.5k]

1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

So do most at this level, including West Brom, Norwich and Watford.  We did beat both Norwich and Watford on their own patch.

They have better quality, experience and more depth than us imo.

We also beat Leicester....doesn't mean we are better than them does it?

Hull have got a really good strategy going 

[Borodane 6,815 26.5k]

1 hour ago, diggerlad07 said:

They have better quality, experience and more depth than us imo.

We also beat Leicester....doesn't mean we are better than them does it?

Hull have got a really good strategy going 

You honestly think that WBA, Norwich and Watford have better squads than us. No way. And neither do Ipswich, Hull and Coventry. Without checking I’ll hazard a guess and say that they’ve probably had more luck with injuries but if I’m not mistaken they’ve also got more experienced managers and that’s something that counts. We might well be in a better place in a year or more when carrick has learned a lot more. But we are where we are also because of carrick. 
 

The success we had wasn’t just because of Carrick just like the failures we are seeing now isn’t just because of the players. It’s a shared responsibility. I really like carrick at the club. I think he does a lot of good things but I’m not blind. I’m also realistic enough to appreciate that he needs a lot longer to learn the dark arts of management and get the upper hand on his opposite manager. 

[Changing Times 13,018 20.1k]

1 hour ago, diggerlad07 said:

They have better quality, experience and more depth than us imo.

We also beat Leicester....doesn't mean we are better than them does it?

Hull have got a really good strategy going 

No, but then Leicester are 37 points ahead of us whereas Watford are on the same points as us, Norwich and Hull are 7 points ahead and West Brom 11 points ahead.  We finished ahead of all four of the latter last season but we haven't finished ahead of Leicester for about 12 years.  Leicester are clearly a better side than us for reasons that have nothing at all to do with our own recruitment last summer.  Leicester have a better team now than we had last season with Steffen, Giles, Akpom, Archer, and Ramsey, for example.  I don't know if Watford, Hull and Norwich have a better side than us though, two of them are playing a bit better than us, one is having the same poor season we are having.

[HolgateHero 624 2.1k]

On 2/16/2024 at 12:05 AM, Will said:

(b) and (c) seem quite contradictory to me. We've just bought a player in the summer who only Championship clubs were interested in for £1m and within 6 months turned him into a player that a top 6 Premier League team decided was worth up to £16m. Did the coaching team not improve him?

Akpom improved substantially too - as have others. Not all of them, but the ones that have, it hasn't been by fluke imo. 

The ones that haven't you could just as easily argue that they couldn't be improved, no matter the coaching.