Southampton V Boro 1-1 (Latte Lath)

[RiseAgainst 4,080 3.5k]

5 hours ago, TLF10 said:

@Erimus74. Interesting you say we have “extensive dead wood”. I don't think we do if am honest but interested to hear your views: 

GK: No issue with Dieng, Glover and Jones in that order. Happy for Jones to be offered a further 1 yr deal which allows Brynn and Hemming to carry on developing elsewhere.

CB: Paddy is on way out but other 4 in VDB, Lenihan, Fry and Clarke are a good a quarter as any in this league imo.

Full Backs: Need a new RB but Smith as competition and Engel and Bangura at LB are good.

CM: Need a new DM but Hackney, Howson and Barlaser (in that order) are fine. Barlaser has his detractors but as a 4th choice he more than fine.

AM: Need another but Forss Jones, Azaz and McGree are not dead wood imo and I do believe Silveria will be better for this season.

CF: 100% need a new CF but LL and Coburn I take no issue with as no.2 and no.3 (if we want a no.3)

……….

Only Dijk and Hoppe are our dead wood imo.

Thomas and Greenwood are not our problem as likely to return to parents club in summer.

Gilbert 100% needs a season loan but he not dead wood imo. Not one to give up on him after 1 season.

It was me who said we had extensive dead wood. 

I would argue that Glover either needs to be played in a different system (e.g. not being a Steffen-style sweeper-keeper) or receive intensive coaching to try and knock the numerous ricks out of his system. Yes, he's probably good enough as a stand-in to Dieng, but I don't think he gives the defenders or fans much confidence. The question "is he good enough for a concerted promotion push?" needs to be levelled at any player in our squad in preparation for an absolutely critical season ahead of us. You can argue Glover's merits and deficiencies - perhaps dead wood is harsh in his case, but he's got a hell of a lot to prove based on what we've seen this season.

Elsewhere in the squad, there are persistent rumours we'll sign Greenwood, who has shown next to nothing over most of a season. Thomas has also been a liability. Gilbert is nowhere near the high-end Championship standard we should set as a minimum bar for next season, and therefore I would describe him as dead wood in our squad, though I hope he forges a successful career somewhere. Ditto Dijksteel and Hoppe - maybe one day the latter will come good, but I'm pretty sure it won't be with us. I'd add Silvera to that list as well - he simply hasn't shown anything anywhere close to the standards we need to be aspiring to (and I'm honestly not expecting him to be the next Harry Kane).

I personally have seen very little from Bangura to convince me he's worth keeping over Engel (I'd much rather keep the latter and bring a new LB/LWB in for competition), but I do accept I'm in a minority.

When Azaz comes on, I don't really see where his potential lies. Rogers' talents were obvious, even when he went missing in games. Ditto Jones, who's had some absolute stinkers for us but clearly has natural talent. Even Greenwood, who I would be pleased never to see in a Boro shirt again, can deliver a fine free kick. Based on the evidence of my own eyes - which is ultimately all we fans have to go on - I don't see Azaz being part of a promotion-chasing Championship side. Is it harsh to call him dead wood? Perhaps. But hopefully you can see why I think the eight outfield players listed above could all be defined as such, even giving Glover the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Redcar Rioja 6,760 6.6k]

1 hour ago, RiseAgainst said:

It was me who said we had extensive dead wood. 

I would argue that Glover either needs to be played in a different system (e.g. not being a Steffen-style sweeper-keeper) or receive intensive coaching to try and knock the numerous ricks out of his system. Yes, he's probably good enough as a stand-in to Dieng, but I don't think he gives the defenders or fans much confidence. The question "is he good enough for a concerted promotion push?" needs to be levelled at any player in our squad in preparation for an absolutely critical season ahead of us. You can argue Glover's merits and deficiencies - perhaps dead wood is harsh in his case, but he's got a hell of a lot to prove based on what we've seen this season.

Elsewhere in the squad, there are persistent rumours we'll sign Greenwood, who has shown next to nothing over most of a season. Thomas has also been a liability. Gilbert is nowhere near the high-end Championship standard we should set as a minimum bar for next season, and therefore I would describe him as dead wood in our squad, though I hope he forges a successful career somewhere. Ditto Dijksteel and Hoppe - maybe one day the latter will come good, but I'm pretty sure it won't be with us. I'd add Silvera to that list as well - he simply hasn't shown anything anywhere close to the standards we need to be aspiring to (and I'm honestly not expecting him to be the next Harry Kane).

I personally have seen very little from Bangura to convince me he's worth keeping over Engel (I'd much rather keep the latter and bring a new LB/LWB in for competition), but I do accept I'm in a minority.

When Azaz comes on, I don't really see where his potential lies. Rogers' talents were obvious, even when he went missing in games. Ditto Jones, who's had some absolute stinkers for us but clearly has natural talent. Even Greenwood, who I would be pleased never to see in a Boro shirt again, can deliver a fine free kick. Based on the evidence of my own eyes - which is ultimately all we fans have to go on - I don't see Azaz being part of a promotion-chasing Championship side. Is it harsh to call him dead wood? Perhaps. But hopefully you can see why I think the eight outfield players listed above could all be defined as such, even giving Glover the benefit of the doubt.

 

Harsh but would any of the above get in our last Promotion winning Karana side and the answer even allowing for different playing styles is no. Dimi was probably the weakest link on paper for us and even then set a record number of clean sheets.

[SouthernSmoggie 4,443 6.2k]

2 hours ago, RiseAgainst said:

It was me who said we had extensive dead wood. 

I would argue that Glover either needs to be played in a different system (e.g. not being a Steffen-style sweeper-keeper) or receive intensive coaching to try and knock the numerous ricks out of his system. Yes, he's probably good enough as a stand-in to Dieng, but I don't think he gives the defenders or fans much confidence. The question "is he good enough for a concerted promotion push?" needs to be levelled at any player in our squad in preparation for an absolutely critical season ahead of us. You can argue Glover's merits and deficiencies - perhaps dead wood is harsh in his case, but he's got a hell of a lot to prove based on what we've seen this season.

Elsewhere in the squad, there are persistent rumours we'll sign Greenwood, who has shown next to nothing over most of a season. Thomas has also been a liability. Gilbert is nowhere near the high-end Championship standard we should set as a minimum bar for next season, and therefore I would describe him as dead wood in our squad, though I hope he forges a successful career somewhere. Ditto Dijksteel and Hoppe - maybe one day the latter will come good, but I'm pretty sure it won't be with us. I'd add Silvera to that list as well - he simply hasn't shown anything anywhere close to the standards we need to be aspiring to (and I'm honestly not expecting him to be the next Harry Kane).

I personally have seen very little from Bangura to convince me he's worth keeping over Engel (I'd much rather keep the latter and bring a new LB/LWB in for competition), but I do accept I'm in a minority.

When Azaz comes on, I don't really see where his potential lies. Rogers' talents were obvious, even when he went missing in games. Ditto Jones, who's had some absolute stinkers for us but clearly has natural talent. Even Greenwood, who I would be pleased never to see in a Boro shirt again, can deliver a fine free kick. Based on the evidence of my own eyes - which is ultimately all we fans have to go on - I don't see Azaz being part of a promotion-chasing Championship side. Is it harsh to call him dead wood? Perhaps. But hopefully you can see why I think the eight outfield players listed above could all be defined as such, even giving Glover the benefit of the doubt.

 

Deadwood is a harsh term but I'll take it to mean players who I don't ever see being part of a promotion-winning side. For me, that's: Greenwood, Barlaser, Hoppe, Silvera, Coburn, Glover, Dijsksteel, Gilbert, Thomas

We then have a large-ish group of players who can all be very good on their day but have at least one major issue hanging over them, whether that's getting on in age, lack of consistency, or recurrent injury problems: Howson, O'Brien, Smith, Ayling, McNair, Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, Engel, Bangura, Forss, Latte Lath, Jones, Azaz... There's potential in there, but let's be real, none of them are getting in the AK promotion side first XI. 

For me, we really only have a handful of players who I have total confidence are good enough for a promotion push: Dieng, McGree, VDB, and Hackney. I would have included Rogers here too which would have made nearly half a team. 

Barring a 10/10 transfer window where several miracles are performed, I expect another similar season to this one. Probably a bit closer to 6th without such ridiculous injuries. 

[RiseAgainst 4,080 3.5k]

55 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

Deadwood is a harsh term but I'll take it to mean players who I don't ever see being part of a promotion-winning side. For me, that's: Greenwood, Barlaser, Hoppe, Silvera, Coburn, Glover, Dijsksteel, Gilbert, Thomas

We then have a large-ish group of players who can all be very good on their day but have at least one major issue hanging over them, whether that's getting on in age, lack of consistency, or recurrent injury problems: Howson, O'Brien, Smith, Ayling, McNair, Fry, Lenihan, Clarke, Engel, Bangura, Forss, Latte Lath, Jones, Azaz... There's potential in there, but let's be real, none of them are getting in the AK promotion side first XI. 

For me, we really only have a handful of players who I have total confidence are good enough for a promotion push: Dieng, McGree, VDB, and Hackney. I would have included Rogers here too which would have made nearly half a team. 

Barring a 10/10 transfer window where several miracles are performed, I expect another similar season to this one. Probably a bit closer to 6th without such ridiculous injuries. 

Yes, perhaps deadwood is too pejorative a term. "Not good enough for what we need next season" is a kinder - if rather wordier - way of expressing what I mean.

I don't think we play to Barlaser's strengths, and I'd defend him to a point. He can be a fine passer but he'd look a far better player overall as the holder in a CDM pairing alongside a teammate with more licence to charge forwards. He's clearly limited in some respects, and certainly wouldn't be in my starting XI if everyone was fit, but I think he could be a useful player for us, especially in games which are getting bogged down in midfield.

Also, I'd suggest we haven't seen the best of Coburn yet. He's a young lad with a niggling injury problem but he can still give opposing defenders a torrid time.  Again, our reliance on him to lead the line this season is indicative of the paucity of talent elsewhere in our squad (as is playing Greenwood and Silvera up front), but as an impact sub, Coburn has plenty to offer in a promotion push.

Ultimately, though, it's all so subjective. I think Ayling could be great for us in a back five, Clarke (despite the odd rick) looks a class act and it's hard to say what impact Smith and Lenihan could have next season. Whatever money we have in the summer needs to be spent giving our attack more teeth - a first-choice striker, a Rogers-type replacement and the aforementioned defence-to-attack CDM in particular. With more players fit and one or two more vocal leaders out on the pitch, the defensive half of our squad is a lot better than this season's goals against record might suggest. By contrast, I don't think our current attacking half offers much scope for improvement.

[Redcar Rioja 6,760 6.6k]

45 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

Yes, perhaps deadwood is too pejorative a term. "Not good enough for what we need next season" is a kinder - if rather wordier - way of expressing what I mean.

I don't think we play to Barlaser's strengths, and I'd defend him to a point. He can be a fine passer but he'd look a far better player overall as the holder in a CDM pairing alongside a teammate with more licence to charge forwards. He's clearly limited in some respects, and certainly wouldn't be in my starting XI if everyone was fit, but I think he could be a useful player for us, especially in games which are getting bogged down in midfield.

Also, I'd suggest we haven't seen the best of Coburn yet. He's a young lad with a niggling injury problem but he can still give opposing defenders a torrid time.  Again, our reliance on him to lead the line this season is indicative of the paucity of talent elsewhere in our squad (as is playing Greenwood and Silvera up front), but as an impact sub, Coburn has plenty to offer in a promotion push.

Ultimately, though, it's all so subjective. I think Ayling could be great for us in a back five, Clarke (despite the odd rick) looks a class act and it's hard to say what impact Smith and Lenihan could have next season. Whatever money we have in the summer needs to be spent giving our attack more teeth - a first-choice striker, a Rogers-type replacement and the aforementioned defence-to-attack CDM in particular. With more players fit and one or two more vocal leaders out on the pitch, the defensive half of our squad is a lot better than this season's goals against record might suggest. By contrast, I don't think our current attacking half offers much scope for improvement.

Our defence may not be the quickest but as a group they add up to a reasonable amount of ability (as oppose to quality perhaps) and skill at this level. We can improve of course but this season we have offered next to no threat attack wise, ELL may improve next season and so may Coburn but if their injury records continue then we may as well write the pair off in a Promotion context. Strikers, Midfield and the "No.10" role needs serious consideration because we have nobody even remotely close to Akpom.

We need to score goals and if we do we will by default ease pressure on our defence. Scott needs to ensure that next season Carrick or whoever else is in the dug-out have a strike force that can pull up tree stumps instead of hamstrings. To that end I think our most important signing may well be a sports physiotherapist capable of identifying why so many injuries have been occurring.

[Downsouth 6,725 36.2k]

33 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Our defence may not be the quickest but as a group they add up to a reasonable amount of ability (as oppose to quality perhaps) and skill at this level. We can improve of course but this season we have offered next to no threat attack wise, ELL may improve next season and so may Coburn but if their injury records continue then we may as well write the pair off in a Promotion context. Strikers, Midfield and the "No.10" role needs serious consideration because we have nobody even remotely close to Akpom.

We need to score goals and if we do we will by default ease pressure on our defence. Scott needs to ensure that next season Carrick or whoever else is in the dug-out have a strike force that can pull up tree stumps instead of hamstrings. To that end I think our most important signing may well be a sports physiotherapist capable of identifying why so many injuries have been occurring.

Or make sure they are wearing football boots instead of rugby boots!

[Erimus74 3,569 3.7k]

If we record a 4th cobsecutive  cleansheets it will beat his twice previous best of 3 consecutive cleansheets

[Erimus74 3,569 3.7k]

On 3/26/2024 at 10:57 AM, RiseAgainst said:

It was me who said we had extensive dead wood. 

I would argue that Glover either needs to be played in a different system (e.g. not being a Steffen-style sweeper-keeper) or receive intensive coaching to try and knock the numerous ricks out of his system. Yes, he's probably good enough as a stand-in to Dieng, but I don't think he gives the defenders or fans much confidence. The question "is he good enough for a concerted promotion push?" needs to be levelled at any player in our squad in preparation for an absolutely critical season ahead of us. You can argue Glover's merits and deficiencies - perhaps dead wood is harsh in his case, but he's got a hell of a lot to prove based on what we've seen this season.

Elsewhere in the squad, there are persistent rumours we'll sign Greenwood, who has shown next to nothing over most of a season. Thomas has also been a liability. Gilbert is nowhere near the high-end Championship standard we should set as a minimum bar for next season, and therefore I would describe him as dead wood in our squad, though I hope he forges a successful career somewhere. Ditto Dijksteel and Hoppe - maybe one day the latter will come good, but I'm pretty sure it won't be with us. I'd add Silvera to that list as well - he simply hasn't shown anything anywhere close to the standards we need to be aspiring to (and I'm honestly not expecting him to be the next Harry Kane).

I personally have seen very little from Bangura to convince me he's worth keeping over Engel (I'd much rather keep the latter and bring a new LB/LWB in for competition), but I do accept I'm in a minority.

When Azaz comes on, I don't really see where his potential lies. Rogers' talents were obvious, even when he went missing in games. Ditto Jones, who's had some absolute stinkers for us but clearly has natural talent. Even Greenwood, who I would be pleased never to see in a Boro shirt again, can deliver a fine free kick. Based on the evidence of my own eyes - which is ultimately all we fans have to go on - I don't see Azaz being part of a promotion-chasing Championship side. Is it harsh to call him dead wood? Perhaps. But hopefully you can see why I think the eight outfield players listed above could all be defined as such, even giving Glover the benefit of the doubt.

 

Good points, cant really disagree with any of those comments TBH

[TeaCider24 13,945 18.6k]

As usual with these things, he might be lying, but it doesn't sound like anyone's going to be back fit for Friday.

So we'll have a very weak bench.

 

 

[Redcar Rioja 6,760 6.6k]

It's a great idea having International breaks with Clubs having players travelling from the four corners of the Globe and with one day less for the Managers and Players alike to prepare for games over a Bank Holiday weekend.

Either the International bodies need to give their heads a shake (especially as many of them seem to have been friendlies) or the domestic leagues need to get their act together when arranging fixtures.

[LinoJo3 3,893 11.2k]

Wouldn’t say our season is fully over just yet, we can still ‘stay in the pack’ with 2 very winnable games after Southampton plus the chance to take points off hull. Outside chance yes but who knows what can happen if we end the season strongly. If we were 7 points off the bottom 3, nobody would be suggesting to play random academy players.

[TeaCider24 13,945 18.6k]

We need to win or we're definitely out of it.

All of the still slightly catchable teams are playing *** teams.

Norwich are playing Plymouth at home, they'll win.

Hull are playing Stoke at home, they'll win.

Preston are playing Rotherham at home, they'll win.

Coventry are playing Huddersfield away, they should win.

 

I think it was realistically over the second we drew with Blackburn, so I'm not going to get worked up about it.

I still want us to put in a good performance and win though, we're long overdue.

Edited March 28 by TeaCider24

[TeaCider24 13,945 18.6k]

The match is available on the club website in the UK tomorrow, for anyone interested.

[Downsouth 6,725 36.2k]

6 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

The match is available on the club website in the UK tomorrow, for anyone interested.

Good to know thanks very much

[TheJew 3,165 5.2k]

Not even bothered. Season dead.

We will lose, but it's all about recruitment for next season now.

Bin loan players off if we have no intention of signing them. Give our own players a chance.