Hull v Boro 2-2 (Latte Lath, Azaz)

[Redcar Rioja 9,086 8.8k]

Greenwood has had some decent games but unfortunately they are few and far between and nowhere near consistent enough to be picked regularly. Silvera is our own player and whilst coming up short in many areas out of the two for me it's a no brainer. There is obviously something at play that we aren't aware of which is why he is getting game time because it's not what he offers to the team.

He does have a set piece in his kit bag and maybe that is the hope that keeps Carrick persisting but it's nowhere near enough to warrant a starting position even with the current level of injuries. He get's dispossessed, he doesn't dribble, rarely nowadays does he get a shot in and apart from running around like a headless chicken and lunging in in areas of the pitch where it isn't required I really struggle to see what he brings to the party. 

Last night the Gazette gave him a 4 and to me that was as generous as they could be "Really poor performance. The game just passed him by and he was regularly the guilty party when attacks broke down, with his touch and pass just not there. A young player, he looked bereft of confidence and in his short time on the pitch, Silvera offered more of a threat."

There is now a dedicated thread on FMTTM on the lad which isn't going to help his confidence but a Manager should have pulled him out of the firing line before it's got to this stage. I could understand at the peak of the injury crisis and having little option but there are alternatives now and I struggle to see the point of playing a lad who is devoid of confidence and belief. Moreover he doesn't even seem to be enjoying his football, his body language looks to me like he is being played as a punishment.

I hope we haven't signed an obligation to relieve ourselves of £1.5m (and who knows what on wages) because if he does end up here permanently next season the knives will be sharpened before he even kicks a ball as an official Boro player. Excess to requirements at Leeds I can see him maybe out on loan to Sunderland next season which may help him develop and be able to put his heart into the game again. Failing that he looks a prime candidate to end up at Celtic or Rangers, bossing games against minnows and clattering into opponents during the Old Firm derbies. Right now it looks like Boro and Greenwood are a poor mix and that's not beneficial to the Club, the fans and most importantly to a young lad who has probably another 12 plus years ahead of him in the game.

[SouthernSmoggie 5,315 7k]

42 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Greenwood has had some decent games but unfortunately they are few and far between and nowhere near consistent enough to be picked regularly. Silvera is our own player and whilst coming up short in many areas out of the two for me it's a no brainer. There is obviously something at play that we aren't aware of which is why he is getting game time because it's not what he offers to the team.

He does have a set piece in his kit bag and maybe that is the hope that keeps Carrick persisting but it's nowhere near enough to warrant a starting position even with the current level of injuries. He get's dispossessed, he doesn't dribble, rarely nowadays does he get a shot in and apart from running around like a headless chicken and lunging in in areas of the pitch where it isn't required I really struggle to see what he brings to the party. 

Last night the Gazette gave him a 4 and to me that was as generous as they could be "Really poor performance. The game just passed him by and he was regularly the guilty party when attacks broke down, with his touch and pass just not there. A young player, he looked bereft of confidence and in his short time on the pitch, Silvera offered more of a threat."

There is now a dedicated thread on FMTTM on the lad which isn't going to help his confidence but a Manager should have pulled him out of the firing line before it's got to this stage. I could understand at the peak of the injury crisis and having little option but there are alternatives now and I struggle to see the point of playing a lad who is devoid of confidence and belief. Moreover he doesn't even seem to be enjoying his football, his body language looks to me like he is being played as a punishment.

I hope we haven't signed an obligation to relieve ourselves of £1.5m (and who knows what on wages) because if he does end up here permanently next season the knives will be sharpened before he even kicks a ball as an official Boro player. Excess to requirements at Leeds I can see him maybe out on loan to Sunderland next season which may help him develop and be able to put his heart into the game again. Failing that he looks a prime candidate to end up at Celtic or Rangers, bossing games against minnows and clattering into opponents during the Old Firm derbies. Right now it looks like Boro and Greenwood are a poor mix and that's not beneficial to the Club, the fans and most importantly to a young lad who has probably another 12 plus years ahead of him in the game.

Silvera for me has been even worse than Greenwood and he himself had to be taken out the firing line as he was so bad when starting games earlier in the season - Carrick must feel he's not ready. Greenwood for his flaws has a lot more experience of top level English football and I honestly think Carrick sees him as the only real option we have there right now. 

That attacking left position is nailed as McGree's on the rare occasions when he is actually fit. We had Rogers who could do a decent job there too before he was sold, even though he preferred the central spot. 

Next season that left attacking spot needs to be McGree plus someone who can push him for competition and comfortably replace him in the starting XI if these injuries persist - another Ramsey would be nice. 

 

Edited April 11, 2024 by SouthernSmoggie

[Bruce 3,157 2.5k]

5 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

That attacking left position is nailed as McGree's on the rare occasions when he is actually fit. We had Rogers who could do a decent job there too before he was sold, even though he preferred the central spot.

That spot was roughly where Azaz played for Plymouth and it had been Rogers best position. The problem has really been #10. Azaz has moved there with mixed results. Greenwood has been worse at #10 than out left. Rogers was getting better at #10 but it's noticeable that Villa have been playing wide left. O'Brien is also good there. Ironically we have no lack of players for the wide left forward but the player who is most used to it, Azaz, is being shoehorned into the middle. If we didn't play with a #10 I think we would be fine.

When we play Leeds, Ayling won't be available so I guess we'll be playing 3 at the back with Jones as a wingback due to a lack of right backs. I can't help thinking that reverting to 3 at the back for the rest of the season might be the way forward.

Of our new signings who have played a good amount (2,000+ minutes in the Championship) Greenwood is the only one who looks to have got worse over the season. People go over the top but for me both him and Engel are weak points. Main reason you can't say Engel has got worse is that he started so badly. (Engel is also one of those odd players whose stats seem to be better than how he looks when playing so it might by that some of his problems are caused by the formation rather than him.)

[SmogDane 4,138 8k]

Dieng for Santa 

Greenwood is a donkey 

Leave Engel alone, he is way better than Thomas 

Howson had one of the rolling back the years games 

Clarke is doing pretty well for someone who's career ended with a terrible back injury ... 

Azaz starting to show what he can do ...

 

[SouthernSmoggie 5,315 7k]

2 minutes ago, Bruce said:

That spot was roughly where Azaz played for Plymouth and it had been Rogers best position. The problem has really been #10. Azaz has moved there with mixed results. Greenwood has been worse at #10 than out left. Rogers was getting better at #10 but it's noticeable that Villa have been playing wide left. O'Brien is also good there. Ironically we have no lack of players for the wide left forward but the player who is most used to it, Azaz, is being shoehorned into the middle. If we didn't play with a #10 I think we would be fine.

When we play Leeds, Ayling won't be available so I guess we'll be playing 3 at the back with Jones as a wingback due to a lack of right backs. I can't help thinking that reverting to 3 at the back for the rest of the season might be the way forward.

Of our new signings who have played a good amount (2,000+ minutes in the Championship) Greenwood is the only one who looks to have got worse over the season. People go over the top but for me both him and Engel are weak points. Main reason you can't say Engel has got worse is that he started so badly. (Engel is also one of those odd players whose stats seem to be better than how he looks when playing so it might by that some of his problems are caused by the formation rather than him.)

Interesting about Azaz, I always thought he was more of a central player. I guess if he goes left then we just have the same problem in a different position, where Greenwood becomes the only real option at 10! Agree that the players we currently have at our disposal seem better suited to the 3-5-2. 

[Humpty 5,183 10.6k]

12 minutes ago, Bruce said:

That spot was roughly where Azaz played for Plymouth and it had been Rogers best position. The problem has really been #10. Azaz has moved there with mixed results. Greenwood has been worse at #10 than out left. Rogers was getting better at #10 but it's noticeable that Villa have been playing wide left. O'Brien is also good there. Ironically we have no lack of players for the wide left forward but the player who is most used to it, Azaz, is being shoehorned into the middle. If we didn't play with a #10 I think we would be fine.

When we play Leeds, Ayling won't be available so I guess we'll be playing 3 at the back with Jones as a wingback due to a lack of right backs. I can't help thinking that reverting to 3 at the back for the rest of the season might be the way forward.

Of our new signings who have played a good amount (2,000+ minutes in the Championship) Greenwood is the only one who looks to have got worse over the season. People go over the top but for me both him and Engel are weak points. Main reason you can't say Engel has got worse is that he started so badly. (Engel is also one of those odd players whose stats seem to be better than how he looks when playing so it might by that some of his problems are caused by the formation rather than him.)

Give Azaz a chance man. He's only been here a few months and despite being in and out of the team, he's still scoring and assisting. I think he's showing great promise and that will only improve as the better players start to filter back into the side i.e. Hackney, McGree etc.

[Smogzilla 9,473 7.1k]

1 minute ago, Humpty said:

Give Azaz a chance man. He's only been here a few months and despite being in and out of the team, he's still scoring and assisting. I think he's showing great promise and that will only improve as the better players start to filter back into the side i.e. Hackney, McGree etc.

The comments about Azaz seem very similar to what people were saying about Mcgree after he joined in that January window. 

Daft how quick people get written off.

 

[Bruce 3,157 2.5k]

3 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Give Azaz a chance man. He's only been here a few months and despite being in and out of the team, he's still scoring and assisting.

I literally say "mixed results" and that it's not a position he's played much before. There's no way that means I've "written him off." Personally, I think he'll make the grade. We've all seen that rare cases like Ramsey aside, it is very hard for players to adapt to Carrick's style. 

 

[Neverbefore 15,138 29.4k]

2 minutes ago, Smogzilla said:

The comments about Azaz seem very similar to what people were saying about Mcgree after he joined in that January window. 

Daft how quick people get written off.

 

I'm not sure I've seen anyone write him off to speak. I just don't think he's shown what he's capable of yet in his all round game. Despite that hes still getting the odd goal and assist so that's a positive, I just want to see more from him in general play. His speed of thought in particular needs to improve, he takes too long to sort his feet out and make a decision on what to do. 

[AnglianRed 7,883 18.1k]

13 hours ago, Boro 86 said:

Odd game. We were shocking between our goals but started to play after we equalised.

that’s probably it now but stranger things have happened 

We do seem very much a confidence team. Often cagey at the start and when we're trying to get back into a game, but when we score, we then usually start playing a lot better. Its almost like the players need a sign that they can beat the other team (apparently even when we score first! 😆).

Edited April 11, 2024 by AnglianRed

[wilsoncgp 10,215 20k]

7 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I'm not sure I've seen anyone write him off to speak. I just don't think he's shown what he's capable of yet in his all round game. Despite that hes still getting the odd goal and assist so that's a positive, I just want to see more from him in general play. His speed of thought in particular needs to improve, he takes too long to sort his feet out and make a decision on what to do. 

100%, he's a young lad and he'll get the chance to prove himself in the coming years for sure. These experiences will be great for him and will surely serve him well going into next season.

But we can sum the positives in a Boro shirt up simply in moments, never in games. It's hard to even consider him for a man of the match even in games where he has contributed to goals because so far, he's often been relatively anonymous, moreso even than Greenwood has been in the game sometimes. Could say he's similar to Crooks under Carrick, in that regard, as you can never write him off from contributing something to a result even though for large periods you might wonder what he's doing on the pitch.

Still, those moments stand as a bit of a testament to his quality and I think there's reason to be excited by his future. Give him a full pre-season and give him consistency in the team around him and he could flourish in a big way.

[Humpty 5,183 10.6k]

14 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I'm not sure I've seen anyone write him off to speak. I just don't think he's shown what he's capable of yet in his all round game. Despite that hes still getting the odd goal and assist so that's a positive, I just want to see more from him in general play. His speed of thought in particular needs to improve, he takes too long to sort his feet out and make a decision on what to do. 

I'd say that of Greenwood. His decision making is poor and he's now at a stage where he really doesn't have an excuse.

I don't think it's inherent issue in him as a player. Clearly he never had that problem at Plymouth. As a creative player understanding how your team plays and the nuances of each player is critical to how efficient you can be as a creative player. Azaz is still understanding and working this all out. That will come with game time.

[LinoJo3 5,822 13.6k]

To put Azaz into context since he’s apparently been poor. He’s played less than half the amount of games for us that greenwood has, only 11 of them starts and he’s already on the same number of assists and is only 2 goals behind Greenwood’s 5.

[Stitchy 277 174]

Have previously posted about not being a Greenwood fan. Last night was one of his worst displays.

He cba to put in the effort to chase his man back in 1st half injury time last night when we conceeded a few mins before and Clarke had to leave his man to cover. Moves broke down with him, he was dispossessed almost at will.

He's a luxury player that provides luxury on a very occasional basis. He is a free kick expert but has only scored one and most of his others go over the bar.

Saying that he must be due to score a goal soon!

Bloke behind me was telling ref to send him off! 

 

[TeaCider24 18,385 23.4k]

7 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

To put Azaz into context since he’s apparently been poor. He’s played less than half the amount of games for us that greenwood has, only 11 of them starts and he’s already on the same number of assists and is only 2 goals behind Greenwood’s 5.

That's not particularly surprising, Greenwood's not had a goal involvement in 3 months.

Even Gilbert's been involved in the same number of goals as Greenwood in the second half of the season.

He's been one of our main attacking players across that period too.