Hull v Boro 2-2 (Latte Lath, Azaz)

[mendieta420 1,102 2.4k]

thought we played well then i come here the next day and apparently half the team was ***

i wont stand for dieng criticism.. the save he made for the bouncing header was absolutely world class

azaz i thought was good

greenwood was fine, hes literally just the whipping boy

15 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

Can’t wait to get a long look at Bangura 

looks alright going forward but really struggled every time he faced someone strong and pacey

[thatoldchestnut 716 1.9k]

8 hours ago, BoroSmoggie said:

That’s harsh. He’s struggled during his time here but I don’t think I’ve ever questioned his desire or work rate.

Each to their own opinion, but I really hope he doesnt come back for the reasons I have stated. I arent keen on Ayling either but I cant say the same about him.

[ScarBoro 989 1.3k]

23 minutes ago, mendieta420 said:

thought we played well then i come here the next day and apparently half the team was ***

i wont stand for dieng criticism.. the save he made for the bouncing header was absolutely world class

azaz i thought was good

greenwood was fine, hes literally just the whipping boy

looks alright going forward but really struggled every time he faced someone strong and pacey

I think with all the ones coming into Championship for first time, it needs time to adapt from their old leagues. It’s bad enough switching sides in Championship like Azaz. You have to get used to the style your new manager wants to play and how you interact with the other players. Players are jus5 like us, some are more confident (or over-confident) and others need encouragement. For players from other leagues, the Championship is pretty brutal, fast and physical at times. 
Carrick has already said he expects a lot more from Silvera next season when he is fully bedded in. I think we are just starting  to see best  of LL as well. So I am hopeful we will see the best of both of them then.  I guess the time to adapt applies to Engel - but he’s had a lot more games to adjust and it’s worrying that the same faults seem to keep recurring. Ironically he seems fine with holding his own in tackles and tussles - it’s his mistakes and lack of pace that’s the issue. He may be better on left of a back three, where he isn't caught out forward and hasn’t got to cope with fast wingers.
Greenwood hasn’t really played in Championship until Boro - but he did play a good number of games for LU in Premier League.  I could understand it with him if it was the physicality of our league that was an issue, but it’s all the things he would have needed in PL - finding space, picking out teammates, quality of passes, creating opportunities etc. that seem to be very average. He’s coping with the physical side of the league fine. 

[Neverbefore 12,323 26.6k]

1 minute ago, ScarBoro said:

I think with all the ones coming into Championship for first time, it needs time to adapt from their old leagues. It’s bad enough switching sides in Championship like Azaz. You have to get used to the style your new manager wants to play and how you interact with the other players. Players are jus5 like us, some are more confident (or over-confident) and others need encouragement. For players from other leagues, the Championship is pretty brutal, fast and physical at times. 
Carrick has already said he expects a lot more from Silvera next season when he is fully bedded in. I think we are just starting  to see best  of LL as well. So I am hopeful we will see the best of both of them then.  I guess the time to adapt applies to Engel - but he’s had a lot more games to adjust and it’s worrying that the same faults seem to keep recurring. Ironically he seems fine with holding his own in tackles and tussles - it’s his mistakes and lack of pace that’s the issue. He may be better on left of a back three, where he isn't caught out forward and hasn’t got to cope with fast wingers.
Greenwood hasn’t really played in Championship until Boro - but he did play a good number of games for LU in Premier League.  I could understand it with him if it was the physicality of our league that was an issue, but it’s all the things he would have needed in PL - finding space, picking out teammates, quality of passes, creating opportunities etc. that seem to be very average. He’s coping with the physical side of the league fine. 

It's confidence more than anything with greenwood for me. When he has time his quality is actually really good, his set piece delivery is better than anyone else in the squad. When he has time on the edge of the area he tends to get really good shots off. But when he gets closed down quickly he loses the ball more often than not. 

[macapes 2,142 2.4k]

45 minutes ago, mendieta420 said:

thought we played well then i come here the next day and apparently half the team was ***

i wont stand for dieng criticism.. the save he made for the bouncing header was absolutely world class

 

Not even for their second goal? It was terrible distribution and gifted them a shot.

[Bruce 1,955 1.7k]

10 minutes ago, macapes said:

Not even for their second goal? It was terrible distribution and gifted them a shot.

It was an almost identical pass to the one the lead to our first goal.

Dieng short kick to Clarke, Clarke returns it. Dieng advances outside the area, O'Brien starts moving towards him, Dieng to him. O'Brien with first time layoff to Clarke. Clarke considers going back to Dieng but spots Engel and passes long to him. As soon as the ball goes towards Engel, Latte Lath starts a run. Engel gets the ball and chips it first-time towards Latte Lath. Latte Lath takes a touch then finishes. Perfect passing out from the back goal. 4 touches from Clarke to back of the net. 

Rosenior said after the match that he reckoned our first goal was worked out on the training ground because we expected Omur to be pushed up and Engel worked hard to get in behind him.

Hull's second goal, we try it again. Dieng short to Clarke, Clarke back to Dieng. Only this time Hull push more aggressively on to Dieng. He passes to O'Brien from the 6 yard box. O'Brien isn't expecting it quite so early and Sarri has read the pass (he was pressing O'Brien when we scored) so starts moving before O'Brien does. The pass is slightly underhit meaning that Sarri can get ahead of O'Brien and intercept it. The rest is history. 

In that match we were 1-1 from playing out from the back. Playing out from the back in this way is a way of creating a counter-attack from a dead-ball situation. First time we execute it perfectly. Second time, Hull are wise to the risk and we don't quite get it right. Our second goal is also a near perfect Chuckle brothers counter-attack goal. Howson - Jones - Azaz - Jones - Azaz - goal.

 

[LinoJo3 3,893 11.2k]

27 minutes ago, Bruce said:

It was an almost identical pass to the one the lead to our first goal.

Dieng short kick to Clarke, Clarke returns it. Dieng advances outside the area, O'Brien starts moving towards him, Dieng to him. O'Brien with first time layoff to Clarke. Clarke considers going back to Dieng but spots Engel and passes long to him. As soon as the ball goes towards Engel, Latte Lath starts a run. Engel gets the ball and chips it first-time towards Latte Lath. Latte Lath takes a touch then finishes. Perfect passing out from the back goal. 4 touches from Clarke to back of the net. 

Rosenior said after the match that he reckoned our first goal was worked out on the training ground because we expected Omur to be pushed up and Engel worked hard to get in behind him.

Hull's second goal, we try it again. Dieng short to Clarke, Clarke back to Dieng. Only this time Hull push more aggressively on to Dieng. He passes to O'Brien from the 6 yard box. O'Brien isn't expecting it quite so early and Sarri has read the pass (he was pressing O'Brien when we scored) so starts moving before O'Brien does. The pass is slightly underhit meaning that Sarri can get ahead of O'Brien and intercept it. The rest is history. 

In that match we were 1-1 from playing out from the back. Playing out from the back in this way is a way of creating a counter-attack from a dead-ball situation. First time we execute it perfectly. Second time, Hull are wise to the risk and we don't quite get it right. Our second goal is also a near perfect Chuckle brothers counter-attack goal. Howson - Jones - Azaz - Jones - Azaz - goal.

 

Anyone sensible doesn’t really have an issue with playing out from the back, the issue is with making an obviously risky pass when you don’t even need to, trying to force something to happen. It just seems common sense to see the situation O’Brien was in and think ‘oh that play isn’t on I’ll try something else for now’. It was just a pass that obviously shouldn’t have been made and that’s what (most) of us have the issue with, not playing out from the back in general.

It’s just annoying when we defend genuinely dangerous situations well and then concede by gifting soft af goals. I beg there has to be a balance between Carrick ball and karankas ruthless defence, it surely can’t be that difficult to cut out the majority of them *** goals. Even stopping 50% of them during this season probably puts us in the play offs.

[Bruce 1,955 1.7k]

8 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

the issue is with making an obviously risky pass when you don’t even need to, trying to force something to happen.

I agree that it was bad decision-making but I can see how it happened. We had clearly rehearsed it and had been under pressure for a while. Dieng would have thought he could see the pass and that maybe with Hull pressing up this was the perfect time to try it again but like any accident, it was a series of small misjudgements that led to the goal. Carrick says "be brave" Dieng decides to be brave. O'Brien isn't expecting it so isn't moving but Dieng needs to act quickly. He should have launched it but he knows it just gives the ball back to Hull so he goes for the brave route. Slightly more awareness from O'Brien or less awareness from Sarri (or less of a superb finish) and it's embarrassing but no worse.

Steffen did something almost identical last season when he passed the ball out to McNair only McNair wasn't set, got robbed and they scored. 

I don't know how many goals we've scored from passing out at the back but it will be a lot more than we've conceded. Carrick also made the point that the goal Vardy scored against us came straight from a long goal kick. We launch it, they win the header, it goes to Cannon, first time pass to Vardy, Vardy runs through and scores. If we had played it short and invited Leicester on, maybe they would have over-committed and we would have scored on the break out.

The problem with the Hull goal is that it looks awful but it was really no more awful than Leicester's simple goal from the long kick. A long kick might not look risky but it absolutely is because you are losing control and at that point, anything can happen.

[LinoJo3 3,893 11.2k]

7 minutes ago, Bruce said:

I agree that it was bad decision-making but I can see how it happened. We had clearly rehearsed it and had been under pressure for a while. Dieng would have thought he could see the pass and that maybe with Hull pressing up this was the perfect time to try it again but like any accident, it was a series of small misjudgements that led to the goal. Carrick says "be brave" Dieng decides to be brave. O'Brien isn't expecting it so isn't moving but Dieng needs to act quickly. He should have launched it but he knows it just gives the ball back to Hull so he goes for the brave route. Slightly more awareness from O'Brien or less awareness from Sarri (or less of a superb finish) and it's embarrassing but no worse.

Steffen did something almost identical last season when he passed the ball out to McNair only McNair wasn't set, got robbed and they scored. 

I don't know how many goals we've scored from passing out at the back but it will be a lot more than we've conceded. Carrick also made the point that the goal Vardy scored against us came straight from a long goal kick. We launch it, they win the header, it goes to Cannon, first time pass to Vardy, Vardy runs through and scores. If we had played it short and invited Leicester on, maybe they would have over-committed and we would have scored on the break out.

The problem with the Hull goal is that it looks awful but it was really no more awful than Leicester's simple goal from the long kick. A long kick might not look risky but it absolutely is because you are losing control and at that point, anything can happen.

Again the issue isn’t playing out from the back, I have no problem with it. It’s to simply not make a stupid pass, the pass was stupid it wasn’t ‘brave’. From the moment it left diengs foot we could all see what was coming. Fair enough it’s one of those things that players irrationally do sometimes but it has cost us it’s just facts.
 

It’s just another symptom of that overly relaxed look we have sometimes, it’s not hard to think ok we’re at 1-1 in a pretty important away game and are currently getting battered, maybe we should just play it safe for now and take the sting out. 
 

It’s decisions like that which can be the difference between 3 points and not 3 points. Being ruthless and boring when you need to be isn’t a bad thing.