1 hour ago, TeaCider24 said:

Forest were incredibly lucky to be punished for their cheating in the season with arguably the worst 3 promoted teams in Premier League history.

There have been worse individual teams promoted, but I can't think of another where all 3 were absolutely miles off it.

Forest would have rightly went down in most other seasons.

Signing 32 players in one season, so many that they couldn't even keep about a dozen of them registered, was ludicrous, their owner is an absolute clown as well.

yeah if he don't sell on I see more of a Wolves situation than a Villa one. when you hear of Villa trying things on with FFP everything's organised and pretty smart, where with forrest you get gamble and throw as much *** at the wall to make something stick, they got lucky and based on other teams who also got lucky without the owner showing good management its likley over performing season, they have to deal with retaining these over performing players in the summer and/or coming up with profitable sales and buying more players that will turn a profit when they want to move on also, rather than just hoping saudi aribia bails you out

22 hours ago, MarkT73 said:

As H says above. We would likely be up and down and up again. But if you want to build a Premier League squad, that's the only way now.

Admittedly the first season up won't be a great watch....

First season add 5 or 6 on longish contracts, hold on to as many as you can, go back up and add 5 or 6 more.

If you look at Ipswich. IF they fail to finish outside the bottom 3 they'll lose a couple of their players that have shone, eg Delap. But they'll be stronger than the Championship team of last season.

I agree but Steve no longer has the appetite, cause or reason. We lost our chance when we didn’t go back up before the parachute payments ran out. My take on the whole. Steve did not invest to prevent us going down thinking we would bounce back up. Then didn’t take it serious enough and walla here we are. 

22 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

I agree but Steve no longer has the appetite, cause or reason. We lost our chance when we didn’t go back up before the parachute payments ran out. My take on the whole. Steve did not invest to prevent us going down thinking we would bounce back up. Then didn’t take it serious enough and walla here we are. 

Im pretty sure no team has spent as much as us in a single transfer window in this division than we did that summer we came down. And that was without any significant sales, de Roon money being returned aside.

He took it very seriously, just made a lot of bad decisions. He has course corrected on this since with the appointment of Scott and rebuilding our scouting and recruitment system. Your first statement is ridiculous. Why would he bother doing any of that if he didn't care?

What annoys me about this result and the Sheffield Wednesday draw was that we conceded a goal in each of those games whilst trying to avoid giving a corner away. We’d possibly be 4 points better off had we conceded those 2 corners. 

1 hour ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

What annoys me about this result and the Sheffield Wednesday draw was that we conceded a goal in each of those games whilst trying to avoid giving a corner away. We’d possibly be 4 points better off had we conceded those 2 corners. 

Maybe. But then again have you seen us defending corners? 😉

4 minutes ago, ladyspite said:

Maybe. But then again have you seen us defending corners? 😉

Yes... Glover seems to have developed the idea it is possible to come off the line and catch the ball...that will never catch on 🙂 

15 hours ago, Humpty said:

Bottom line and the point of the discussion...promotion and the money it provides, gives you more opportunities than the alternative of trying to build steadily in the Championship.

I'm discussing something else, that there are undeniably and factually proven other ways to gain promotion. I began discussing it as it seemed there was a belief it's the ONLY way. And it isn't.  

Granted the extra money gives extra opportunities, but it also gives you issues to deal with when relegated. 

Stone cold facts are that there are more teams with parachute payments outside of the PL than in there. Yes it's a pathway, but is it norwich who've had 3 parachute payments and currently 11th in the champo? It's hit and miss - with more misses statistically.

Imo sound management of the club will serve us better in the long run than a bit of extra cash (evidenced by all the teams outside of the pl that received parachute payments) we disagree and that's ok. 

Edited January 7, 20251 yr by HolgateHero

6 hours ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

What annoys me about this result and the Sheffield Wednesday draw was that we conceded a goal in each of those games whilst trying to avoid giving a corner away. We’d possibly be 4 points better off had we conceded those 2 corners. 

Agreed, hackney really needed to put his boot through one of them instead of trying to dink it over the attacker. If we didn't concede any of the incredibly soft goals, and the incredibly jammy goals we'd be flying. 

7 hours ago, HolgateHero said:

I'm discussing something else, that there are undeniably and factually proven other ways to gain promotion. I began discussing it as it seemed there was a belief it's the ONLY way. And it isn't.  

Granted the extra money gives extra opportunities, but it also gives you issues to deal with when relegated. 

Stone cold facts are that there are more teams with parachute payments outside of the PL than in there. Yes it's a pathway, but is it norwich who've had 3 parachute payments and currently 11th in the champo? It's hit and miss - with more misses statistically.

Imo sound management of the club will serve us better in the long run than a bit of extra cash (evidenced by all the teams outside of the pl that received parachute payments) we disagree and that's ok. 

The reason there are more teams outside the Premier League with parachute payments than there are clubs in it is because there are finite spots in the Premier League. There are way more teams outside the Premier League without parachute payments than there are in it, too.

The fact still remains that the easiest way to get out of this league is to buy the best players, and that's easier with Premier League money than without. The top three are two of the teams relegated last season, and the only one relegated the season before that didn't go straight back up. You get one underdog each season, usually - Sunderland this time, Ipswich last season, Luton the season before - but it usually holds true that the richer clubs do better.

17 minutes ago, JCWamma said:

The reason there are more teams outside the Premier League with parachute payments than there are clubs in it is because there are finite spots in the Premier League. There are way more teams outside the Premier League without parachute payments than there are in it, too.

The fact still remains that the easiest way to get out of this league is to buy the best players, and that's easier with Premier League money than without. The top three are two of the teams relegated last season, and the only one relegated the season before that didn't go straight back up. You get one underdog each season, usually - Sunderland this time, Ipswich last season, Luton the season before - but it usually holds true that the richer clubs do better.

plus you can sometimes keep players that only joined you because you were in the premier league for a season or so if they believe in the manager and getting paid enough etc

easy to argue that some teams don't bounce back, of course some don't, because sometimes theres good reasons teams come down more than just not having the players, sometimes they have terrible management from the owners and/or coaching staff and its still not successfully addressed when they are in the EFL, or the sometimes things might be alright behind the scenes. but the players need 6months+ to get used to the league. 

Most years there are 2 parachute payments going up, that stat alone tells you that your chances of going up are massively increased. Usually one bounces back 1st try and often another is in their 2nd year 

Edited January 7, 20251 yr by Rob

23 hours ago, Neverbefore said:

Im pretty sure no team has spent as much as us in a single transfer window in this division than we did that summer we came down. And that was without any significant sales, de Roon money being returned aside.

He took it very seriously, just made a lot of bad decisions. He has course corrected on this since with the appointment of Scott and rebuilding our scouting and recruitment system. Your first statement is ridiculous. Why would he bother doing any of that if he didn't care?

Where did I say he didn’t care? 

23 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

Where did I say he didn’t care? 

Quote

I agree but Steve no longer has the appetite, cause or reason.

I assume he meant this bit,

to be fair Steve was relying on Orta at the time, and for all the good he did helping us get up and getting us some decent talent in the summer, he gave us fk all in that january window, other than bamford (decent for us coming down) and a few chumps who were obvious chumps. You saw a similar situation play out when he left us to goto leeds, club and their scouting and requirement like us was way behind the times, he come in and brought things up to date, had a few decent recruits and starts to think he is a genius and over steps the line

that january we were in the position where no attacking players wanted to come play for us because of the way the AK made us play. we looked like we were stalling and going to drop in the relegation zone as at best we were getting draws most of the time. 

All the players I remember who we were linked with that might of been good purchases were all people who needed a loan or a move to get game time and turn things around for them,

and I do not blame them for turning us down, because you could see it a mile off that coming here on loan or a sale in the prem would of probably set their career back another year or two after behind here for half a season during our relegation and getting hardly any goals/assists to your name to make another team take notice and sign you.

they all seemed to be spanish players as well, and I get the feeling that if they spoke to our Spanish players playing for us at the time that joined when we were in the premier league,  that quite a few of them probs wouldn't of done their bit to talk them round to bring them in,

infact I wouldn't be surprised if many of the new Spanish players when asked tried to distance themselves from how bad it was to say they were going in the summer too