26 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

Carrick (G) for Danks looks like a dreadful downgrade, and even Danks wasn't able to inculcate the ability to take a decent corner or free kick. We've spunked away so many set piece opportunities in the last few seasons, it would make me weep if someone tallied them all up.

Honestly I'm not sure we are much worse than a lot of other Championship clubs. There's plenty of bad set pieces in every game from every team. It's just an indication of the technical ability and lack of consitency of this level. One week Greenwood smashes in a perfect free kick in the top corner and the next week he hits the first defender from a corner three times in a row. It's infuriating but it's just the level we are playing at.

1 hour ago, Borodane said:

. I think it's more likely that it's a managerial tactic from Carrick, Never concede possession by booting it long regardless of the situation. Always try to remain in possession.

I reckon you're right. In particular I think it's a tactic when we win back the ball in our defensive area that we attempt to counter immediately through short passing at the back. It feels like a lot of our mistakes come from that. It's difficult because the ball can be bouncing around and players tend to be out of position.

The classic counter-attack from defence is a ball down the channel or over the top to a speedy winger but in Carrickball it's about making a triangle at the back so you can pass through what should be a disordered attacking team. This is also why sometimes it seems that our attacking players don't track back. They tend to move into possession waiting for the defence to win the ball and get it out to them so I am pretty sure they are under instructions not to track back.

When we're playing strong teams, we tend to do this less but when we're playing teams we're "supposed" to beat who are conceding possession we do it a lot more because their attacks are relatively rare and we're trying to make the most of them. This leads to a safety-first approach against the better teams and sure enough, apart from Leeds, we tend to be quite disciplined and not concede many goals. But when playing the likes of Preston, our defenders appear to be under instructions to treat any attack the other team makes as a chance to win the ball back and start a counter.

I mean, I'm not convinced by Carrick but it's clear that he and his coaching team do have well-drilled tactics that aim at certain outcomes. My grumble is that I'm not convinced it works in any sustainable way and when it goes wrong it makes our defenders look like idiots which, patently, they are not. Carrick also strikes me as someone who does think a lot about what he's trying to do and you can spot quite a lot of tweaking of tactics between games. 

Personally, I think he needs to revert back to a safety-first at all times defensive tactic against all teams because right now, the mistakes are killing us. it's not just the results it's the knock-on effect on the rest of the team and impact on confidence. We're actually going into a spell of games against strong teams so we probably will be safety-first for those; he needs to keep that mentality for all games, IMHO.

 

15 hours ago, gordy1000 said:

I don't want to see him go, but I think he needs help. Recruiting his brother as 'danksy's' replacement didn't strike me as a good appoitment at the time. Plus we must question how effective "woody' is being - there are some basic defending skills lacking in the team - row z is definately a valid option.

I've been saying for what feels like years that I feel we have a very weak coaching set-up, as there very rarely seems to be any noticeable improvement in our players...physically, technically or mentally (decision-making wise).

We can have good performances and bad performances, depending on the opposition, but I've never looked at someone like Jones and thought, "Wow - his dribbling / crossing has got better!" Our defending clearly hasn't improved - again seems dependent on who we're playing and whether Carrick sets up for a more counter-attacking style.

Same with the players' decision making in general. Again, it could be they're just following Carrick's instructions (badly), but sometimes, if you think something's not working, or you're not sure you can do what you're being asked to, use your brain and fall back on something you're comfortable with? 

1 hour ago, RiseAgainst said:

Weirdly, I think Carrick would perform better at a Premier League club than a Championship one. His Man City-lite sweeper-keeper tactics would find a home at a West Ham-style club, but it's just not working in the thud and blunder of the Championship.

I can't remember a time when our squad has underperformed this badly. We've got so much talent, but it's not being harnessed to anywhere near its full potential. The likes of Mogga and Warnock were operating with lower league imports, freebies and over-the-hill players, whereas Carrick has the sort of squad any Championship manager would want - youthful, talented, tipped for greater things.

I agree with @Smokedsalmonthat the Chuba season was our golden chance to go up, but we shat the bed three times against Coventry. Even if we scrape top six this season, does anyone on here honestly believe we'd have the defensive organisation to withstand the inevitable late onslaught if we were winning in the second leg?

If Carrick stays, we need a solid organisational coach to come in NOW. I've referenced the Robson and Venables situation before, as have others. We're desperate for that calm, experienced voice to instil some confidence into our players, who at times look scared of their own shadows. The talent is there - you can't fake the way we played against Leeds in the cup or those three high-scoring games. But the man management is not.

Carrick (G) for Danks looks like a dreadful downgrade, and even Danks wasn't able to inculcate the ability to take a decent corner or free kick. We've spunked away so many set piece opportunities in the last few seasons, it would make me weep if someone tallied them all up.

No wonder the Echo are going in. I read that article and immediately thought they've been given the green light to do so from high up in the club. To quote a line from Lock Stock, alarm bells are ringing.

I think he would do better higher up the league as well, thought he would of been bang on for england tbh

I feel when we went up with karanka we had a really strong team to support him on the staff side, and think it helped him a lot, he was always well drilled and had a plan for each team, hard to see as your not privvy to these things but feel we a bit lighter these days 

20 hours ago, AllBoro10 said:

Echo going in on Carrick. FairPlay. Agree with every word.

 

Carrick is an intelligent man, I don’t see gibbo and bausor heaping unnecessary pressure onto him. He knows the score and knows he’s been backed. With a few outgoings and incoming he’s changing the squad pretty dramatically. Full steam ahead from here I think.

Under previous Managers we'd have one or two players left up near the half way line when defending Corners. The big lads would be back in our box to head clear and add a bit of muscle but a lightweight speed merchant (or two) would be left on the half way line resulting in the opposition having to keep two players back to occupy our one. It resulted in a less congested penalty area and an outlet to both relieve pressure and create an opportunity.

I'm not talking Pulis Hoofball, I'm talking a genuine tactic to tie up opposition numbers and easing pressure on ourselves defending the corner and the chance of a quick turnover. It doesn't have to be all of one or all of the other but I fear Carrick is boxing himself into a corner to the point where it is penalising himself and the team. The last time I genuinely recall something similar was when Hugill nearly ended Jones' career, and with it our season's hopes, plus the lad never really came back the same for whatever reason.

I get the purity of Carrickball and the intention behind it but life isn't black or white or one dimensional, variety is the spice of life. Being able to play the ball around in tight triangles is to be commended but having some alternative options to destabilise the plans of your opponent is a requirement in all walks of life not just in sport. I would much prefer an outcome of a wiser, shrewder and more cynical Carrick bringing success than to witness the routine comedic errors at the back and Subs every 70 minutes.

When my Missus had heard me expressing the same frustration repeatedly (polite definition) she has remarked that maybe the poor lad has some sort of  borderline OCD and to give him a break. She even once came into the room and asked "has he put the Subs on yet" (she is totally disinterested in football) and I snapped back "why?", "it's so I know when to put the tea on" came the reply knowing fine well that she was winding me up to get a bite, and it worked!

Interesting article about Barca and their offside tactic, also mentions Pep and how upcoming young Coaches have tried to emulate.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/why-barcelona-s-kamikaze-offside-trap-could-change-european-football/ar-AA1y2AfJ?ocid=BingNewsSerp

 

 

I see Stevie G is looking for a new gig!

Just want to go on record as saying no, never, absolutely not, not under any circumstances at all whatsoever (hmmm unless maybe if it was him or Woodgate).

One Michael Carrick there's only one Michael Carrick!

On 1/28/2025 at 8:50 AM, Borodane said:

it's just the level we are playing at.

The team always reflects the style of the manager ; and we are often too laid back and shy about getting stuck in so we very much reflect Carrick, passive so I will never accept that a different manager couldn’t get more from this bunch of players. 
Carrick certainly won’t get us where we want to be because even if we somehow manage to get into the top six, Carrick can’t provide the intensity required for success in the playoffs; Carrick’s team is the absolute opposite of intensity. 

Edited February 5, 2025Feb 5 by ExfootyLimbs

Carrick was able to play his sort of game at Man Utd because he had the likes of Scholes,Butt and Kean doing the heavy lifting. Has it not dawned on him that he was protected all through the game so he could do his thing?

On 1/28/2025 at 10:33 AM, Swifty said:

Carrick is an intelligent man, I don’t see gibbo and bausor heaping unnecessary pressure onto him. He knows the score and knows he’s been backed. With a few outgoings and incoming he’s changing the squad pretty dramatically. Full steam ahead from here I think.

Changing the squad? Seriously to what effect? Same defensive frailties, same outrun and outfought midfield when trying to offer defensive support, same lack of game management, same difficulty hanging onto a lead.

Delude yourself if that is your want. New players will not matter a fig with the stubborn manager and his ineptitude to act on the many weaknesses that continue to contribute to our plight.

Fools paradise is what he ( Carrick) sells

Edited February 5, 2025Feb 5 by Robin Johnson

16 hours ago, Plastic Goat said:

Carrick was able to play his sort of game at Man Utd because he had the likes of Scholes,Butt and Kean doing the heavy lifting. Has it not dawned on him that he was protected all through the game so he could do his thing?

Butt left Utd in 2004, Keane left in 2005. 

 

Carrick joined in 2006.

Scholes was an attacking midfielder. Carrick played as the deepest midfielder for Utd. 

 

This comment couldn't be more wrong in so many ways. You've revealed your age there since there's zero chance you ever saw that Utd team play!

imagine nicky butt being responsible for carrying carricks career 

 

never change plastic goat 

Edited February 6, 2025Feb 6 by Rob

don't even think man utd used to play it out from the back under Fergusson did they? always thought they were more a counter attacking side 

Just now, Rob said:

don't even think man utd used to play it out from the back under Fergusson did they? always thought they were more a counter attacking side 

Yeah I'd say that's accurate. Two wingers high up in a 442, double pivot, all about quick transitions. Changed to 433 later on with Ronaldo and Tevez playing as wider forwards with Rooney in the middle dropping deep quite a lot. Pretty much always with a double pivot though. Would find it hard to be any more different from how Carrick sets up. Baffles me that he can't seem to really grasp a midfield balance considering how incredible he was at marshalling that area of the pitch in his prime.