Carrick

[Swifty 254 264]

35 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I don't think it makes any difference if he stays or goes, if we were managerless I doubt we would be any worse off but possibly better (WBA coped OK with Brunt). Either way this team isn't going to win the Play Offs with him in charge, a busted flush who has reached his pinnacle, pretty good at times, even exciting but ultimately sadly just not good enough.

At full time I might have agreed but I think he’s earned some patience, let’s get our injuries back and get a settled 11. Let’s add to our squad with some quality and have a final push. I believe we’re a point off 5th, it isn’t that bad really in the grand scheme of things. 

[Lord_Moose 535 1.1k]

Realistically I don’t see Carrick going before the end of the season regardless of where we are. If we miss out on the play offs I think a conversation could be had by the powers that be but I full expect Carrick to be in charger come the first game of next season. Another slow start though could be the killer. 

I don’t think there are any decent options to come in now, Mowbray would have been my number 1 but that ship has sailed. I personally don’t think someone like Rob Edwards or Steve Cooper would change much now. 

[boronutter 175 533]

i personally think its the beginning of the end,feelings are very low at the moment,its his team,he is not prepared to change much within the team either,a couple more bad results and the fand will really turn,time will tell of course

[Robin Johnson 1,527 2.2k]

I know it is only one game on Tuesday but the result and performance could be quite telling.

Likely to be one of the lowest attendance this season fue yo disillusionment and apathy. And the atmosphere? Probably would hear more noise at a library.......

[AnglianRed 7,823 18k]

5 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

I'm not sure if it'll be make or break for the club, but I do think it could be a tipping point with many fans.

I'm still Carrick in, despite the frustrations, but we've not won a game at home in well over a month, whilst we've repeatedly dropped points to some of the worst teams in the league and I think it's going to be an incredibly flat atmosphere on Tuesday, I could see it turning really sour if we lose.

Probably a harsh game for fans to turn on, given it's against a decent team with a decent manager, but I think they would.

Agree with this.

I'm doing a TJ for this game and believe Boro will need a minor miracle to get a win. West Brom will (or should) have the new manager factor going on and Mogga has seen how we've been playing recently, so will likely have a plan to counter it.

Then factor in we've been crap at home lately.

I honestly can't think of a single reason to be positive for this game.

I'm treating it as essentially a free hit for Carrick. A defeat won't have me calling for his immediate resignation. But also agree if it doesn't go well the fans could turn nasty...which would be a shame.

[Bruce 2,678 2.2k]

I don't think it's the end of the road but the end of the road is in sight unless something changes.

I had a thought. It feels like we've been basically stagnating for a long time and it looks like 1.5 points per game is Carrick's ceiling, almost regardless of players. So I had a look at Championship matches and how many points per game we've been getting over a span of games. 

In his first season it all looked great but tailed off. Last 14 games of the season (i.e. about 1/2 of his first season) is won 6, draw 3, lost 5: 21 points from 14 games =1.5ppg

Whole of last season is 69 points from 46 games - 1.5ppg

This season so far is 41 points from 27 games, again 1.5ppg

You can see in 22/23 there is a change after the loss to WBA. Prior to that we were winning 4-5 games in a row and never losing twice in a row. After the WBA game we struggled to win more than 2 in a row and started to lose multiple games in a row.

What it looks like is an initial honeymoon period of about 3-4 months and then stagnation. 87 games averaging 1.5 points per game which is pretty much on the 6th/7th boundary. Good spells, bad spells but mostly mediocre for extended periods. Hard to find any foreseeable reason that that will change. It sort of implies that he is on a level with someone like Frank Lampard at best. A player with a glowing reputation who is parachuted into an ambitious Championship club but hasn't done the hard yards at a lower level. Right now, when you think of McKenna and Carrick coaching together at Man Utd, it feels like we got the one with the looks and Ipswich got the one with the brains.

Despite that I do think we stick with him until Easter at least. At that point, if we're still bobbing along at 1.5 points per game and gradually drifting out of contention for the playoffs, it's time to part company and give a new coach a decent run with the current players before the summer.

[Borodane 7,529 27.2k]

We’re going nowhere under carrick. He simply doesn’t have the tools in his locker. He may get there with experience so it’s a decision whether we will be the club that gives him time knowing that we won’t get anywhere. 

[Swifty 254 264]

Just chatting to my dad about this very subject and he said something along the lines of

“you take the likes of Roger’s, ELL and VDB look at the job Carrick has done with these players to make them as valuable as they are in todays market, that is no accident. Fans aren’t giving him and the coaching team enough credit and throw the toys out of the pram as soon as we get a bad result. He is to Kieron Scott what Mr Miyagi was to Daniel La Russo. Michael Carrick is here to stay until he doesn’t want to be here anymore”
 

funny guy my dad but he makes a point. 

Edited January 19 by Swifty

[RealSlimSladeyy 920 1.4k]

Stood in the stands yesterday at full time was the first time I'd ever seriously considered that Carrick wasn't going to eventually come good. A deflating feeling for sure.

I still have faith he can get us where we want to be but I'm increasingly left to question what that is based on. It's probably mainly rooted in my disdain for the short-termism we see so often in football now and knowing that we have adopted a long-term, patient approach to running the club (I do also genuinely believe Carrick has shown plenty of promise in his time here).

Still, all the noise coming out of the club was that they expected us to be performing better than we currently are so it's impossible not to feel disappointed when lofty expectations were set out by the club.

[thatoldchestnut 835 2k]

4 minutes ago, Swifty said:

Just chatting to my dad about this very subject and he said something along the lines of

“you take the likes of Roger’s, ELL and VDB look at the job Carrick has done with these players to make them as valuable as they are in todays market, that is no accident. Fans aren’t giving him and the coaching team enough credit and throw the toys out of the pram as soon as we get a bad result. He is to Kieron Scott what and Miyagi was to Daniel La Russo. Michael Carrick is here to stay until he doesn’t want to be here anymore”
 

funny guy my dad but he makes a point. 

It's all well and good developing players for other teams but we need him to put a team together to get promoted.  Then he has to motivate them and he isn't  doing  that.

[Swifty 254 264]

1 minute ago, thatoldchestnut said:

It's all well and good developing players for other teams but we need him to put a team together to get promoted.  Then he has to motivate them and he isn't  doing  that.

I understand that but from what my dad was saying is that he’s helping keep the club sustainable, as long as he’s doing that I doubt Gibbo would want to mess with the formulae. 

[TeaCider24 17,175 22.4k]

3 minutes ago, Swifty said:

I understand that but from what my dad was saying is that he’s helping keep the club sustainable, as long as he’s doing that I doubt Gibbo would want to mess with the formulae. 

We're still nowhere near sustainable even with large player sales, no club outside of the Premier League is.

The only way the club will earn more than it spends is promotion and a sustained run in the Premier League.

Even that's not guaranteed, most of the clubs in the top flight are losing money every season.

[thatoldchestnut 835 2k]

3 minutes ago, Swifty said:

I understand that but from what my dad was saying is that he’s helping keep the club sustainable, as long as he’s doing that I doubt Gibbo would want to mess with the formulae. 

I understand that part but there has to be some progress towards getting  promoted because  that us where the riches really are.

[Redcar Rioja 8,415 8.3k]

Just now, Swifty said:

I understand that but from what my dad was saying is that he’s helping keep the club sustainable, as long as he’s doing that I doubt Gibbo would want to mess with the formulae. 

Is it Carrick keeping the Club sustainable or Scott?

Scott scouts and recruits the players, Carrick plays them in his system, I would think even if Pulis (heaven forbid) was still the Manager Rogers, VDB etc. would look OK (remember how he nursed Adama). A good Player is a good Player, based on the complete lack of his own managerial development and improvement (and Woodgate beside him) I would seriously question if these players have shown progress because of him or in spite of him.

[Borodane 7,529 27.2k]

4 minutes ago, Swifty said:

I understand that but from what my dad was saying is that he’s helping keep the club sustainable, as long as he’s doing that I doubt Gibbo would want to mess with the formulae. 

We will only be sustainable if we’re promoted and I don’t think carrick is a good enough manager for that. Yet.