Carrick

[Swifty 251 260]

3 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Is it Carrick keeping the Club sustainable or Scott?

Scott scouts and recruits the players, Carrick plays them in his system, I would think even if Pulis (heaven forbid) was still the Manager Rogers, VDB etc. would look OK (remember how he nursed Adama). A good Player is a good Player, based on the complete lack of his own managerial development and improvement (and Woodgate beside him) I would seriously question if these players have shown progress because of him or in spite of him.

I reckon it’s a bit of both, sustainable was probably the wrong term to use but they seem to work well together. 

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 2,119 10.2k]

7 minutes ago, Borodane said:

We will only be sustainable if we’re promoted and I don’t think carrick is a good enough manager for that. Yet. 

He’ll get there over time. We just need to hold our nerve and show a bit of faith in the man rather than booing him off the pitch. 

[Redcar Rioja 8,076 7.9k]

1 hour ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

He’ll get there over time. We just need to hold our nerve and show a bit of faith in the man rather than booing him off the pitch. 

I think he has had an abundance of faith and support from Scott and SG and from the terraces.

How much time does he need?

How much have we improved/stagnated/regressed over the last 2.5 years?

What signs (even early shoots) are we seeing to believe he is moving in the right direction?

How believable is his footballing philosophy when we crumble in games regularly even with commanding leads?

How do fans hold their nerve when we watch relegation haunted sides routinely hand him his backside on a platter with alarming and predictable regularity?

How much more faith do fans have to show when he fails to change games mid game regularly?

How many more games are the fans supposed to get behind his one trick tactics and when not working witness like for like subs and changing nothing?

How much more faith do fans have to show when his side collapses when faced with a low block and has to date no reply to a tactic well known now to negate his Plan A?

How many more games do fans have to sit and watch comedic, disorganised, chaotic and dysfunctional defending?

I could go on and on but even Duracell Bunnies eventually run out of energy.

[Robin Johnson 1,326 1.9k]

I really do not get this unconditional love in for Carrick. The Boro supporters know of his frailties - so do the opposition.

He has proved he is not for altering his philosophy - fair enough.

But should this still be engaged when the detriment to the club is being played out?

Carrick a fantastic stylish footballer - is this why some of the fanbase still retain support for him?

To me he is clearly in a category of " taken the club as far as he can".

My faith has gone - and he should be gone IMO.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 2,119 10.2k]

14 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I think he has had an abundance of faith and support from Scott and SG and from the terraces.

How much time does he need?

How much have we improved/stagnated/regressed over the last 2.5 years?

What signs (even early shoots) are we seeing to believe he is moving in the right direction?

How believable is his footballing philosophy when we crumble in games regularly even with commanding leads?

How do fans hold their nerve when we watch relegation haunted sides routinely hand him his backside on a platter with alarming and predictable regularity?

How much more faith do fans have to show when he fails to change games mid game regularly?

How many more games are the fans supposed to get behind his one trick tactics and when not working witness like for like subs and changing nothing?

How much more faith do fans have to show when his side collapses when faced with a low block and has to date no reply to a tactic well known now to negate his Plan A?

How many more games do fans have to sit and watch comedic, disorganised, chaotic and dysfunctional defending?

I could go on and on but even Duracell Bunnies eventually run out of energy.

We are about where I expected us to be to be honest, when you look at the squad and the injury list.
The playoffs are still within our grasp. 

The club do need to invest in a midfielder and a striker I presume MC will have a few names he wants. We also need to sort out the goalkeeping situation. Glover doesn’t inspire confidence in our defenders.  
There is no point getting players in and then sacking Carrick, the last thing we need is another total rebuild, under a different manager, probably Woodgate. 
I say get the players in, give him until the end of the season and lets see what happens. It’s not as if we are looking like relegation candidates as we did under Woodgate and Wilder. 

[Robin Johnson 1,326 1.9k]

1 minute ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

We are about where I expected us to be to be honest, when you look at the squad and the injury list. The playoffs are still within our grasp. 
The club do need to invest in a midfielder and a striker I presume MC will have a few names he wants. We also need to sort out the goalkeeping situation. Glover doesn’t inspire confidence in our defenders.  
There is no point getting players in and then sacking Carrick, the last thing we need is another total rebuild, under a different manager, probably Woodgate. 
I say get the players in, give him until the end of the season and leets see what happens. It’s not as if we are looking like relegation candidates as we did under Woodgate and Wilder. 

No we just lose to relegation candidates.......

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 2,119 10.2k]

Just now, Robin Johnson said:

No we just lose to relegation candidates.......

We always have done, we are such a weird team. Traditionally we’ve always raised our game against decent sides and been dragged down to the level of lower teams. The only manager that bucked that trend was AK. 

[Robin Johnson 1,326 1.9k]

3 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

We always have done, we are such a weird team. Traditionally we’ve always raised our game against decent sides and been dragged down to the level of lower teams. The only manager that bucked that trend was AK. 

And that's the reason a trend should continue? Disagree wholeheartedly. I wish to hell " typical Boro " was a phrase consigned to history books.

[AllBoro10 3,000 3.5k]

More analysis of Boro's defeat at Pompey: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/michael-carrick-downplays-middlesbrough-issue-30814953

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 2,119 10.2k]

27 minutes ago, Robin Johnson said:

And that's the reason a trend should continue? Disagree wholeheartedly. I wish to hell " typical Boro " was a phrase consigned to history books.

So do I mate…but it’s never going to happen. You can go back as far as John Neal’s team in the old first division. 
 

Sadly the most consistent thing about Middlesbrough teams is their inconsistency. 

[Redcar Rioja 8,076 7.9k]

32 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

We are about where I expected us to be to be honest, when you look at the squad and the injury list.
The playoffs are still within our grasp. 

The club do need to invest in a midfielder and a striker I presume MC will have a few names he wants. We also need to sort out the goalkeeping situation. Glover doesn’t inspire confidence in our defenders.  
There is no point getting players in and then sacking Carrick, the last thing we need is another total rebuild, under a different manager, probably Woodgate. 
I say get the players in, give him until the end of the season and lets see what happens. It’s not as if we are looking like relegation candidates as we did under Woodgate and Wilder. 

There is no point in doing anything under Carrick while he still refuses or is incapable of learning, refining and moving forward.

You say we are where you thought we should be but do you honestly accept the capitulations, the woeful and totally dysfunctional defensive frailties, the lack of changing tactics in the way that Rohl and Thorup did to undo our domination, crikey even Wayne bleedin Rooney had his number. Cleverly out smarted him at Watford, Eustace pulls his pants down by merely repeating the same tactic, Robbins has him endlessly on toast.

How many games are we supposed to endure spiritless, gutless and lifeless performances, interspersed with a "good run" which always peter out leading to absolutely nothing except false hope. The guy is a really nice bloke but like Gareth was at the time is a busted flush. We are at least ten points worse off than we could have been with just a modicum of managerial savvy.

The benchmark shouldn't be that so long as we aren't facing relegation all is OK because it clearly isn't unless of course mediocre Championship fayre is acceptable, in which case he's overperforming but I really doubt if that is what the majority of fans want or expected or indeed SG. Stan Anderson mastered the art of Boro being almost but not quite for many years.

[LinoJo3 4,958 12.4k]

My biggest worry about Carrick is not that there’s no change it’s that there’s to much. He does see the mistakes and we always seem to be trying something new weird thing to fix it. We seem to be stuck in a perpetual experimental phase like he’s searching for some perfect system but never finding it.

People talk about chopping and changing but when we’re on a good run there virtually no unenforced changes, the same team playing the same way. Then when it goes wrong we wobble and we start seeing the changes.

I wonder if he’s created a monster in his own head, that first season we were phenomenal, everything worked, the system, his subs, until that injury to Ramsey everything he touched turned to gold.
 

My guess would be he’s overthinking it, trying to live up to the reputation he got during that period and just over complicating everything. I say it over and over, the slow football isn’t what he wants it’s just a sign of the system not working.

Everyone always says a team plays in the image of its manager, our general image seems to be confusion, methodical and lacking conviction which would kinda back up my thoughts.

I think it’s so annoying because it feels like he’s so close to being a great manager for us. He’s clearly a good coach and on the whole players seem pretty eager to work under him so he most have a pretty good reputation inside the game. 
 

Not sure what the answer is tbh, I want him to stay and succeed but like others have said if we wake up tomorrow and he’s gone you can’t really have any complaints because currently there is alot of flaws to his management.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 2,119 10.2k]

7 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

There is no point in doing anything under Carrick while he still refuses or is incapable of learning, refining and moving forward.

You say we are where you thought we should be but do you honestly accept the capitulations, the woeful and totally dysfunctional defensive frailties, the lack of changing tactics in the way that Rohl and Thorup did to undo our domination, crikey even Wayne bleedin Rooney had his number. Cleverly out smarted him at Watford, Eustace pulls his pants down by merely repeating the same tactic, Robbins has him endlessly on toast.

How many games are we supposed to endure spiritless, gutless and lifeless performances, interspersed with a "good run" which always peter out leading to absolutely nothing except false hope. The guy is a really nice bloke but like Gareth was at the time is a busted flush. We are at least ten points worse off than we could have been with just a modicum of managerial savvy.

The benchmark shouldn't be that so long as we aren't facing relegation all is OK because it clearly isn't unless of course mediocre Championship fayre is acceptable, in which case he's overperforming but I really doubt if that is what the majority of fans want or expected or indeed SG. Stan Anderson mastered the art of Boro being almost but not quite for many years.

I don’t like losing and I’ve seen us lose in so many different ways over the years, regardless of who is coaching us.  
 

I don’t think sacking managers every couple of years and rebuilding the side from scratch is the right way to run a club. Especially if as I fear, Woodgate takes the reins. It’ll be Agnew all over again. 

[Redcar Rioja 8,076 7.9k]

24 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I don’t like losing and I’ve seen us lose in so many different ways over the years, regardless of who is coaching us.  
 

I don’t think sacking managers every couple of years and rebuilding the side from scratch is the right way to run a club. Especially if as I fear, Woodgate takes the reins. It’ll be Agnew all over again. 

I don't like changing Managers either as it's an admission of failure but let's face it unless you are one of the top 6 Premiership clubs Managers don't have a very long shelf life, its how football works. 

"UEFA, has put the hard yards in to identify exactly how long the average lifespan of a manager is. After studying 48 of the most prestigious leagues on the continent, they found that the average managerial tenure at the elite level is just 16 months". It's not something I would associate or recognise with SG's Boro but it's harsh reality unless Managers deliver success.

Rebuilding the side from scratch is exactly what Scott has been employed to prevent and why I'd wager he'd push for Edwards, (not that I'd personally be convinced with that appointment after Luton). Problem for me is that we, or rather Carrick, isn't building anything. Fast pacy exciting football? Nope, that ship seems to have sailed. Robust, tigerish, do or die defending? Nope, that died with Karanka. Midfield generals controlling and dictating games? Nope, that doesn't look like anytime soon. Put frankly, I have no idea what we, or more specifically Carrick is "building" any more.

A complete 360 would be Dyche and I wouldn't be enamoured with that either but realise that he would probably have us promoted within two years but likely falling out with everyone along the way.

Finally if SG appointed Woodgate again I'll become a Makem, seriously, he can **** right off. The fear of SG appointing Woodgate however isn't exactly a glowing reference for keeping faith in Carrick. If he did I'd implore George to write me a reference and to become my guarantor at the SOL.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 2,119 10.2k]

11 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I don't like changing Managers either as it's an admission of failure but let's face it unless you are one of the top 6 Premiership clubs Managers don't have a very long shelf life, its how football works. 

"UEFA, has put the hard yards in to identify exactly how long the average lifespan of a manager is. After studying 48 of the most prestigious leagues on the continent, they found that the average managerial tenure at the elite level is just 16 months". It's not something I would associate or recognise with SG's Boro but it's harsh reality unless Managers deliver success.

Rebuilding the side from scratch is exactly what Scott has been employed to prevent and why I'd wager he'd push for Edwards, (not that I'd personally be convinced with that appointment after Luton). Problem for me is that we, or rather Carrick, isn't building anything. Fast pacy exciting football? Nope, that ship seems to have sailed. Robust, tigerish, do or die defending? Nope, that died with Karanka. Midfield generals controlling and dictating games? Nope, that doesn't look like anytime soon. Put frankly, I have no idea what we, or more specifically Carrick is "building" any more.

A complete 360 would be Dyche and I wouldn't be enamoured with that either but realise that he would probably have us promoted within two years but likely falling out with everyone along the way.

Finally if SG appointed Woodgate again I'll become a Makem, seriously, he can **** right off. The fear of SG appointing Woodgate however isn't exactly a glowing reference for keeping faith in Carrick. If he did I'd implore George to write me a reference and to become my guarantor at the SOL.

Well at least we agree on one thing!