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How would you feel if Carrick gets sacked?


AllBoro10

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27 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Anyone who thinks Carrick should be sacked has the shortest memory in history, or is only 3-4 years old.

Warnock. Pulis. Woodgate. Monk. Strachan. 

Carrick is part and parcel of the entire package. He's not the one selling Latte Lath, Rogers, etc. That's all part and parcel of the structure we're putting in place to give the club a stable future.

Some Boro fans seem to think we have a God given right to be in the Premier League and need to get their heads into reality.

Cool.

Yeah, noone is saying any of that.

We're suggesting Carrick is underperforming. Terrible form for weeks, wildly inconsistent, not actually scoring much for a supposedly attacking side, so many leads lost, points dropped, so many mistakes. 

Yesterday was just a continuation - Edmundson over Fry, Ayling abandoning RB continuously to get in get middle, playing out from the back directly to the opposition, heads drop completely when we ship a goal, a half time team talk that sees us playing worse and just nothing to try and actually change the game.

We've had bad managers - does that mean we put up with mediocrity?

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42 minutes ago, macapes said:

Cool.

Yeah, noone is saying any of that.

We're suggesting Carrick is underperforming. Terrible form for weeks, wildly inconsistent, not actually scoring much for a supposedly attacking side, so many leads lost, points dropped, so many mistakes. 

Yesterday was just a continuation - Edmundson over Fry, Ayling abandoning RB continuously to get in get middle, playing out from the back directly to the opposition, heads drop completely when we ship a goal, a half time team talk that sees us playing worse and just nothing to try and actually change the game.

We've had bad managers - does that mean we put up with mediocrity?

Is he underachieving though? When you look at our club?

And it's very easy to manage from a forum, isn't it? It's almost like you don't know the whole facts and are judging things on face value.

I think we're pretty much where we deserve, and under difficult circumstances as a club.

This window strikes to me that we'd have gambled on promotion if ELL had stayed. But he went, and so rather than gamble money - and the blueprint - on it, we've made the most of loan deals with a 'hope' of keeping involved, without risking the positive strides we've made in profitability. 

Is Carrick entirely to blame? No. 

Have we been worse off? Yes. And arguably with better players, and with much less profitability. 

Boro fans are a short minded, fickle bunch who need to check our own privilege. 

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1 hour ago, Guffie said:

I think carrick is a brilliant coach. Just doesn’t have what it takes to be a top manager. Yet. Anyways

I dont think Carrick is a brilliant coach, not seen any evidence to think likewise 

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3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

What are the difficult circumstances?

As a club which is reliant on a sole individual to stay afloat. That's has haemorrhaged invested money under recent, previous managers. That is operating in a local economy that has been shafted by successive governments for 40+ years. 

We're moving towards a more sustainable business model for a reason. And new models often take time to implement effectively, sustainably, and profitably.

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2 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

As a club which is reliant on a sole individual to stay afloat. That's has haemorrhaged invested money under recent, previous managers. That is operating in a local economy that has been shafted by successive governments for 40+ years. 

We're moving towards a more sustainable business model for a reason. And new models often take time to implement effectively, sustainably, and profitably.

Most clubs are reliant on a sole individual to say afloat.  The clubs with these wonderful models that people keep banging on about are also heavily in debt to their owners.  I don't really see what that has to do with performance on the field though.  Are you saying our poor performances/inconsistency is as a result of financial issues?

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17 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Is he underachieving though? When you look at our club?

And it's very easy to manage from a forum, isn't it? It's almost like you don't know the whole facts and are judging things on face value.

I think we're pretty much where we deserve, and under difficult circumstances as a club.

This window strikes to me that we'd have gambled on promotion if ELL had stayed. But he went, and so rather than gamble money - and the blueprint - on it, we've made the most of loan deals with a 'hope' of keeping involved, without risking the positive strides we've made in profitability. 

Is Carrick entirely to blame? No. 

Have we been worse off? Yes. And arguably with better players, and with much less profitability. 

Boro fans are a short minded, fickle bunch who need to check our own privilege. 

Oh look another patronising Boro fan. Bore off you helmet. We're allowed an opinion. You have yours we have ours. Stop trying to force your thinking onto others 

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11 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Most clubs are reliant on a sole individual to say afloat.  The clubs with these wonderful models that people keep banging on about are also heavily in debt to their owners.  I don't really see what that has to do with performance on the field though.  Are you saying our poor performances/inconsistency is as a result of financial issues?

I'm saying quite clearly that Carrick is just one cog in the reason for where we are. The blueprint has been created as a through-thread throughout the entire club.

When he played Silvera up top against Leicester last season, and he scored and we got 3 points, it was 'lucky' - but with Edmundson being selected above Fry it's 'Carrick's fault.'

I think as fans we need to stop thinking with our hearts and acknowledge the complexity of the situation, and that's multidimensional.

I also don't think you're right that many clubs are as beholden to an individual as we are. Most are owned by a consortium of owners as opposed to one individual who writes off a magnificent amount of debt the club accrues, and largely does so for the local community. 

If business was as simple as 'make a change in blueprint, reap rewards' it would be simple. MFC, as a business, hasn't been viable (without Gibson's individual input) for many years. I admire that we're working at making it more viable, and we've also made ourselves more competitive during that time.

Some fans might not like what's on show, but we're in a far better position now than we were when we initially hired Carrick, as well as being more profitable. And that shouldn't be ignored just because of frustration at results. 

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9 minutes ago, AllBoro10 said:

Oh look another patronising Boro fan. Bore off you helmet. We're allowed an opinion. You have yours we have ours. Stop trying to force your thinking onto others 

Practicing what you preach there aren't you mate? I'm the one engaging in debate and conversations and not just resorting to name calling and cliché. 🙄

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5 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Practicing what you preach there aren't you mate? I'm the one engaging in debate and conversations and not just resorting to name calling and cliché. 🙄

ah so calling posters 3 or 4 year olds cos you don't agree with them  isn't name callin

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31 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Is he underachieving though?

Yes he is.

We are 7th. And he has been backed heavily over the last couple of seasons, and yet again this January.

This is his team now and he has teams above him in the league that have spent a fraction what we have. I'd even argue there's teams above us with worse squads on paper, and yet their manager(s) are getting more out of their team than Carrick is of ours.

How many times do we have to concede silly sloppy pathetic goals for the penny to drop? It's the same defensive howlers every week and he's not doing anything to change/mend it....or at least that's what it looks like from the outside looking in.

He won't get sacked whilst we're in with a shout of the PO's.

But the moment the PO's are out of sight, then he should be picking up his P45 because the PO's were the minimum objective at the start of the season.

The competition surrounding us is extremely poor and weak, and we're still 7th because of how poor the teams in and around us are. The top 4 are clear and have been much more consistent this season.

We are just as close to the bottom 3 than we are of the top 2....and it's February FFS!

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1 hour ago, Snowblind said:

I'm saying quite clearly that Carrick is just one cog in the reason for where we are. The blueprint has been created as a through-thread throughout the entire club.

When he played Silvera up top against Leicester last season, and he scored and we got 3 points, it was 'lucky' - but with Edmundson being selected above Fry it's 'Carrick's fault.'

I think as fans we need to stop thinking with our hearts and acknowledge the complexity of the situation, and that's multidimensional.

I also don't think you're right that many clubs are as beholden to an individual as we are. Most are owned by a consortium of owners as opposed to one individual who writes off a magnificent amount of debt the club accrues, and largely does so for the local community. 

If business was as simple as 'make a change in blueprint, reap rewards' it would be simple. MFC, as a business, hasn't been viable (without Gibson's individual input) for many years. I admire that we're working at making it more viable, and we've also made ourselves more competitive during that time.

Some fans might not like what's on show, but we're in a far better position now than we were when we initially hired Carrick, as well as being more profitable. And that shouldn't be ignored just because of frustration at results. 

There are certainly consortiums out there I accept that but most clubs are still owned by individuals.  Obviously Carrick is only one cog, I think that is spot on.  It'd be wrong to solely dump everything on his door.  Personally I don't think he's been given the squad required but it is also possible to say that he isn't doing as well with it as he might, or perhaps as someone else might, if you wanted to look at it that way. 

I don't believe we'll become more viable tbh, although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. The money that has been brought in via transfers will be spent mostly the same way.  The club won't become profitable unless it reduces costs significantly or gets promotion.  Costs are increasing at the moment so we aren't attempting the former, which I would say leads us to conclude that we must be attempting the latter. 

I also don't really see how we are more competitive now, unless you are picking a specific point in time to compare us with?  I mean we are in a better position now than we were under Woodgate for example but we're in a worse position than we were under Karanka.  We spent several years in the Premier League as well, and obviously we are well behind that at the moment.  Last season we finished 8th on 69 points, the season before we were 4th on 75 points, and the season before that under Wilder we were 7th on 70 points.  Right now we were on course to finish on about 67 points but there's still a long way to go yet.  A good run of form to end the season and we could be above 70 points.  If we don't have that good run though, and at the moment it's not looking that promising, then we'll have the lowest points total in four seasons.  I know we are spending more on the squad now than we did a few seasons ago under Wilder, and we spend more in the transfer market as well, so shouldn't that lead to better results and performances rather than worse?

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I don't know if I'd go as far as to say sacking him is the right move but I think everyone is in their right mind to suggest he should be doing better with what he has. So if it comes, I don't think he can have many complaints. I don't really care enough right now either way to passionately fight for or against him.

This season will reflect on him in a pretty big way whether he likes it or not, though. Can he motivate and bring out the collective talents of this group in the final third of the campaign or will we continue to flatter to deceive. I suspect the latter but I hope I'm incredibly wrong for all of our sakes.

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40 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say sacking him is the right move but I think everyone is in their right mind to suggest he should be doing better with what he has. So if it comes, I don't think he can have many complaints. I don't really care enough right now either way to passionately fight for or against him.

This season will reflect on him in a pretty big way whether he likes it or not, though. Can he motivate and bring out the collective talents of this group in the final third of the campaign or will we continue to flatter to deceive. I suspect the latter but I hope I'm incredibly wrong for all of our sakes.

Spot on 👍

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