Who would you want to replace Carrick?

[Plastic Goat 460 745]

5 minutes ago, Nobby Barnes said:

What are you talking about ? The season with Chuba and Archer was some of the most entertaining football I've ever seen as a Boro fan....

We don't have Chuba or Archer anymore.. You could argue hat Carrick got very lucky that season.By the way we still had a crap defence but we were able to outscore the opposition. Now we are just leaking goals for fun with nowt happening at the other end of the park

 

[Changing Times 14,687 21.7k]

8 minutes ago, Plastic Goat said:

We don't have Chuba or Archer anymore.. You could argue hat Carrick got very lucky that season.By the way we still had a crap defence but we were able to outscore the opposition. Now we are just leaking goals for fun with nowt happening at the other end of the park

 

To be fair, Chuba wasn't Chuba before that season.

[Erimus74 4,725 4.9k]

35 minutes ago, Plastic Goat said:

We don't have Chuba or Archer anymore.. You could argue hat Carrick got very lucky that season.By the way we still had a crap defence but we were able to outscore the opposition. Now we are just leaking goals for fun with nowt happening at the other end of the park

 

Carrick got so lucky with Akpom & the loans were excellent, unfortunately it didnt happen for us

[Changing Times 14,687 21.7k]

51 minutes ago, Erimus74 said:

Carrick got so lucky with Akpom & the loans were excellent, unfortunately it didnt happen for us

I think that's a little unfair on Carrick.  We only added Ramsey and Archer after he arrived in terms of the loan players.  Ramsey only played about half a dozen games so the squad Carrick had to work with was essentially the same one that was going nowhere under Wilder.  It shouldn't have been going nowhere under Wilder but it was.  Carrick got us playing better, and was getting us results, long before Archer came in as well.  If we start calling it lucky then I'd say we are doing Carrick a disservice.  We can be disappointed with how things are now without revising the past to make it seem less favourable.

Edited February 13 by Changing Times

[LinoJo3 4,958 12.4k]

38 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I think that's a little unfair on Carrick.  We only added Ramsey and Archer after he arrived in terms of the loan players.  Ramsey only played about half a dozen games so the squad Carrick had to work with was essentially the same one that was going nowhere under Wilder.  It shouldn't have been going nowhere under Wilder but it was.  Carrick got us playing better, and was getting us results, long before Archer came in as well.  If we start calling it lucky then I'd say we are doing Carrick a disservice.  We can disappointed with how things are now without revising the past to make it seem less favourable.

I remember that Norwich game when we came back from 1-0 down to win, that’s when it really felt like Carrick could actually get us somewhere.

We had Forrs upfront, chuba behind, jones and McGree in the wide positions and Hackney and Howson in midfield, the obv plus defence and keeper.

On paper this team should be at least as good if not better but we look a shadow of that team. I think Carrick should stop and take a leaf from his own book from a couple of seasons ago, it’s the only way he’s gonna get out of this hole he’s in. My guess is he’s over thinking, over complicating and over engineering everything.

[Erimus74 4,725 4.9k]

Im not knocking Carrick at all, not intending to, that first season was as good as we've seen for many seasons

I genually believe he/we got lucky, if it was Michaels Carricks choice then good on him for seeing that Akpom who had been at the club for, IIR, 2 seasons & going nowhere, made such an impact in the role Carrick played him in, who would have thought he would become such a massive & important player for us, not one of us, such a big miss & for me a bigger miss than Rogers 

His involvement was so good, he just glided over the grass, glued the team together, oppising teams couldnt cope with him coming from deep, speed, his goals, he had everything, nothing like tge Akpom Warnock initially signed, lets not forget, neither Wilder or Warnock wanted him, or other clubs, at that time, for that matter.

We just outscored teams

Ramsey, Archer, Giles were all very good but Akpom was the one & I dont think we've recovered from his transfer 

With only 5 Boro goals to his name at the time his career his value went up another level to where he ended up 

Archer then came in bagged 11 goals as we comfortably got into the playoffs with a month to spare, with Giles contributing assist after assist towards our PL charge

Unfortunately, after a few missed  chances in the first leg that Akpom would usually put away with ease his touch had deserted him at the worst time & in the second leg we were so flat & just bowed out to Coventry & having reached those heights since

Yes, for me I think we got lucky & in a nice way because of the joy we had watching him that season 

[LinoJo3 4,958 12.4k]

1 hour ago, Erimus74 said:

Im not knocking Carrick at all, not intending to, that first season was as good as we've seen for many seasons

I genually believe he/we got lucky, if it was Michaels Carricks choice then good on him for seeing that Akpom who had been at the club for, IIR, 2 seasons & going nowhere, made such an impact in the role Carrick played him in, who would have thought he would become such a massive & important player for us, not one of us, such a big miss & for me a bigger miss than Rogers 

His involvement was so good, he just glided over the grass, glued the team together, oppising teams couldnt cope with him coming from deep, speed, his goals, he had everything, nothing like tge Akpom Warnock initially signed, lets not forget, neither Wilder or Warnock wanted him, or other clubs, at that time, for that matter.

We just outscored teams

Ramsey, Archer, Giles were all very good but Akpom was the one & I dont think we've recovered from his transfer 

With only 5 Boro goals to his name at the time his career his value went up another level to where he ended up 

Archer then came in bagged 11 goals as we comfortably got into the playoffs with a month to spare, with Giles contributing assist after assist towards our PL charge

Unfortunately, after a few missed  chances in the first leg that Akpom would usually put away with ease his touch had deserted him at the worst time & in the second leg we were so flat & just bowed out to Coventry & having reached those heights since

Yes, for me I think we got lucky & in a nice way because of the joy we had watching him that season 

Nah sorry but you can’t do what we did that season out of ‘luck’, if you don’t like Carrick you don’t like him but all of that kind of stuff is bordering on ridiculous. Everything bad that happens is fully down to him, anything good was down to Akpom and luck.

[LBP 3,856 6.2k]

“He got carried by *them players*!”

“Orrr I wouldn’t have *them players* back, they’ve been sh1te since they left!”

[Erimus74 4,725 4.9k]

8 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

Nah sorry but you can’t do what we did that season out of ‘luck’, if you don’t like Carrick you don’t like him but all of that kind of stuff is bordering on ridiculous. Everything bad that happens is fully down to him, anything good was down to Akpom and luck.

 Who on this thread has said they like, or don't like Carrick, where have I wrote anything on this forum regarding liking, or disliking MC?

It seems if you don't think a person is up to the job you dislike him, if you're behind him, you like him, strange way of seeing looking at things

And again I didn't say what MC achieved did that season was out of luck, talk about over exaggerating, I said Michael Carrick will have seen something in him playing in that role & put him there, he had a season of his life. Did you, or anyone else, see Akpom having a future at our football club?

Yes I say Carrick was lucky in that Akpom was awesome in that role, if you want to make out that I said MC was lucky to get us in the PO's then that's up to you, I'll leave it there   

 

 

[Rob 6,084 9.3k]

16 hours ago, Humpty said:

We absolutely did have a squad capable of "pushing" for the top two. There's always an element of luck in whether than manifests itself in results. We've had some injuries which haven't helped but we aren't the only ones. Carrick has struggled to adapt. It's his biggest weakness and why we haven't maximised and fulfilled our potential.

ELL is gone and that's because we aren't challenging for the top 2. He'd still be here if we were. I firmly believe that. We are where we are now. Within the last window we've had to prepare a squad to win the play offs. It goes without saying that finishing in the top 6 is a minimum. 

yeah I reckon ELL would still be here if we were 2nd, mind saying that and thinking about he wanted to leave before the season started, and his run of not scoring didnt help the team after his move was denied

12 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

Hypothetically if it came to it and Carrick walked/was let go in the next week or so would anyone take karanka till the end of the season?

I wouldn’t want him back long term but I think as a short term one last hurrah/unfinished business kind of thing his character and obvious love for the club could be exactly what we need. 
 

There would be no transfer issues/back room politics, just pure football and coaching which I think could keep him in the right headspace long enough to get us in the play offs.

I don't think Karanaka has had any success since us, I'd guess he benefited alot from having victor orta supporting him supplying all the spanish players for him

[Marz 185 1.7k]

When the commentary team mentioned about Burnley going 1-0 up against Hull inside the first few minutes, they said that's as good as being the full-time result considering Burnley's defensive record.

Reminded me of us in the Karanka era, especially when Stuani scored against Brighton, you just knew we'd never concede 2 goals. 

But I still agree, there's too much history with him for him to return now. 

[RiseAgainst 4,754 3.9k]

I think Carrick also had the element of surprise in his favour in his first season. He was an unknown, and he was taking a team steeped in Wilder ideology in a different direction.

The problem Carrick subsequently encountered is the same one that other managers with only one real ideology encounter. When Plan A doesn't work, you need a plan B. Look at Bielsa at Leeds. His teams looked unstoppable for a couple of seasons, but by the end, they were getting tonked 3-0 and 4-0 in every game. He was doing the same thing he'd always done, but other managers were wise to it.

One of the things which really boils my urine about the current situation is that Carrick HAS tried a plan B - three at the back against Leicester - and it worked! Yet he won't go back to it. If we went 5-3-2 against Watford, it'd throw them for a loop and also confuse the managers of the next couple of teams we play, who might then second-guess themselves and not deploy their planned low block or another Carrick-proof tactic. 

[Rob 6,084 9.3k]

Gerrard now linked with blackburn job as well, which if he gets it keeps a few of the choices alive 

[scotty189 1,182 2.7k]

13 minutes ago, Rob said:

Gerrard now linked with blackburn job as well, which if he gets it keeps a few of the choices alive 

Edwards is nailed on for us.

[Bruce 2,524 2.1k]

31 minutes ago, scotty189 said:

Edwards is nailed on for us.

Edwards and Cooper are the obvious ones that we all know. I suspect that Cooper thinks he deserves another shot at the Premier league and can see him turning us down. (I reckon he'll be more likely to end up at a parachute payment club next season or a top tier league on the continent. ) I have a theory that Gibson thinks badly of Edwards based on the way he left Forrest Rovers. 

It also comes down to how much freedom Scott has. Carrick always felt like a Gibson choice rather than a Scott one especially with all the talk of the time about Gibson hunting him down until he got him. Not to say that Scott was unhappy with Carrick, but Carrick feels like exactly the choice you would expect from Gibson after Warnock and Wilder. If we appoint an old warhorse manager after Carrick then we know that Gibson is still making the choices.

I don't think any new head coach has to be a Carrick clone but they clearly will need to have certain skills.

To be able to develop young players in order to turn a profit on them.

To be able to integrate academy players into the 1st team squad.

To be able to coach and develop players who like to be on the ball at all levels.

To be able to put out a team that plays in a broadly attractive way. (Doesn't mean gung-ho attacking, just not a long-ball/set-piece tactic or hyper-defensive.)

To be capable to getting us promoted. (The big one.)