boro-unger 3,811 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said: Young Scouser in 2030: "Dad, did people used to go and watch Liverpool Galaxy playing, rather than just seeing it on telly?" Dad [wearing Tranmere Rovers scarf]: "Aye, son, they did. And they used to play right here in Liverpool. Remember that giant outdoor soft play centre we went to last year? In there." Son: "Not in Singapore, then?" Dad [tear rolling down his cheek]: "No, son. And they weren't managed by the third cousin of a Saudi sheikh back then, either. They had a manager who'd actually played the game himself." Son: "That's so weird. Next you'll be telling me games lasted for more than an hour." [shrugs and turns back to ESL 24+1] Must admit, the giant outdoor soft play in the stadiums sounds fun! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 10 hours ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: It'll be interesting to see what all these players/managers do if it goes ahead though. Will they put their money where their mouth is and refuse? Or will they just take the money and keep quiet? Hmmmmm, total brain melter that one I can't see anyone resigning over this. Only one I can imagine doing so would be Klopp. I notice the other managers have been pretty quiet since the news broke. I would say a lot of players would be unhappy about this - the English ones anyway. But I don't see them asking to be transfer-listed. At most they would see out their current contracts then look for a move. Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Neverbefore said: Seems likely. His interview this evening was batshit crazy. He sounded like he had more than a screw loose Reminded me of Sepp Blatter when he tried to deny there was any corruption at FIFA. Pretty much everything he said was a blatant and easily refutable lie. "Saving football", "fans losing interest", "too many boring matches". All utter ***. Well the CL has more than a few boring matches, but thats UEFA's fault for continually expanding it so there are more and more minnows taking part, who are at best cannon fodder for the big clubs. Basically what it comes down to is Real Madrid and a few other "big" clubs that have got themselves into serious financial strife need bailing out. Thats essentially what the whole idea of the ESL revolves around. Creating a nice cushy bubble they can exist in and basically do whatever they like without being beholden to any FFP rules or external scrutiny. Edited April 20, 2021 by AnglianRed 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,228 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I think to be honest, a lot of people involved at those clubs will be taking in as much information as possible, seeing how things play out for a bit longer, before deciding how they want to respond. They're employees of these clubs first and foremost and need to be careful how they approach something that genuinely might just go away without their input. Every one of them that comes out and condemns it in any way is great, Milner last night for example did it during his interview and his post match tweet about qualifying for the CL. But I'm slightly hesitant to say that Tuchel, for example, is a coward with his comments. These have been thrown under a bus at the end of the day by the real cowards. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
TeaCider24 12,396 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I'm furious that our club have stayed silent on the matter. To the point of Warnock saying he doesn't know anything about it and can't comment, which I expect is partly directed by a request from Gibson to keep quiet. Link to post Share on other sites
Brunners 7,952 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, AnglianRed said: Reminded me of Sepp Blatter when he tried to deny there was any corruption at FIFA. Pretty much everything he said was a blatant and easily refutable lie. "Saving football", "fans losing interest", "too many boring matches". All utter ***. Well the CL has more than a few boring matches, but thats UEFA's fault for continually expanding it so there are more and more minnows taking part, who are at best cannon fodder for the big clubs. Basically what it comes down to is Real Madrid and a few other "big" clubs that have got themselves into serious financial strife need bailing out. Thats essentially what the whole idea of the ESL revolves around. Creating a nice cushy bubble they can exist in and basically do whatever they like without being beholden to any FFP rules or external scrutiny. This one is (as far as I can tell) is basically because they've priced the 16-24 year old market out of watching their teams legally. So they look at their data and see no one in that age bracket is watching anymore, when in reality they're all still watching just on illegal streams because they can't afford anything else! 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Smogzilla 7,384 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I'm still not entirely convinced this isn't just an elaborate attempt to force uefa/fifa into more financial concessions for the big clubs. The ESL just seems so unworkable. They face legal challenges from all angles. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, RiseAgainst said: Young Scouser in 2030: "Dad, did people used to go and watch Liverpool Galaxy playing, rather than just seeing it on telly?" Dad [wearing Tranmere Rovers scarf]: "Aye, son, they did. And they used to play right here in Liverpool. Remember that giant outdoor soft play centre we went to last year? In there." Son: "Not in Singapore, then?" Dad [tear rolling down his cheek]: "No, son. And they weren't managed by the third cousin of a Saudi sheikh back then, either. They had a manager who'd actually played the game himself." Son: "That's so weird. Next you'll be telling me games lasted for more than an hour." [shrugs and turns back to ESL 24+1] Sad thing is, if Perez and his buddies have their way, thats probably exactly what will happen. I can't imagine the actual football will improve beyond what we currently see, so in a desperate bid to attract more "future fans", they will likely go the American route and try to fill the match day with other events. Like when Liberty Media bought F1 and they decided to have concerts, funfairs and other stuff to "fill out" race weekends. Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Smogzilla said: I'm still not entirely convinced this isn't just an elaborate attempt to force uefa/fifa into more financial concessions for the big clubs. The ESL just seems so unworkable. They face legal challenges from all angles. I think it is partly this, but also partly seeing if they could if that makes sense. If the breakaway comes to fruition, great that suits them. If it doesn't, but they force UEFA into more changes that suit those clubs, great. In a horrible way it is a bit win/win for them, the only caveat to that is if all the governing bodies come together and punish them at this stage. Which might potentially drive them to can the idea completely or drive them to push it through anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 16 minutes ago, Smogzilla said: I'm still not entirely convinced this isn't just an elaborate attempt to force uefa/fifa into more financial concessions for the big clubs. The ESL just seems so unworkable. They face legal challenges from all angles. I'm not sure there is anything legally to prevent the ESL from going ahead, otherwise they wouldn't have gone as far as they have. I feel what will decide matters, one way or another, is whether FIFA, UEFA and the national authorities are prepared to follow through with their threats to kick the clubs out of the various competitions and domestic leagues. Unless there are already clauses in place that state a club that is a member of a domestic league may not participate in other leagues. I dunno...maybe someone who is more up on football legal stuff can shed light on this. Link to post Share on other sites
RiseAgainst 3,776 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said: I think it is partly this, but also partly seeing if they could if that makes sense. If the breakaway comes to fruition, great that suits them. If it doesn't, but they force UEFA into more changes that suit those clubs, great. In a horrible way it is a bit win/win for them, the only caveat to that is if all the governing bodies come together and punish them at this stage. Which might potentially drive them to can the idea completely or drive them to push it through anyway. Completely see your point, but I don't think that's true. The reputational damage these clubs have suffered will endure for years. Share prices might have jumped yesterday on the back of overseas stock market traders who regard football clubs as nothing more than tradeable commodities, but these clubs will be viewed with suspicion in future by many players and managers. They might struggle to attract the same levels of attendance/merch sales/marquee signings in the coming years as clubs untainted by this scandal like Bayern, PSG, et al. I'm not suggesting Burnley or the Skunks will do well out of this, but my best friend has been a Man City fan for a quarter of a century and now wants nothing to do with them. That's not just him lost to them, but me (as his matchday companion), any kids he has, etc. These things take time to percolate through, but in the long term, I doubt the 'big six' PL clubs are going to win whatever happens. Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Smogzilla said: I'm still not entirely convinced this isn't just an elaborate attempt to force uefa/fifa into more financial concessions for the big clubs. The ESL just seems so unworkable. They face legal challenges from all angles. Thats exactly what it is, if you are negotiating with someone you need to be in a strong enough position to walk away and move onto an alternative. I think this proposal is just that at the moment, these big European clubs will be prepared to start this alternative format if they can get away with it but I think the ultimate goal is to have more power and control within the current structure. And obviously more share of the financial pie as well. They are acting like a cartel and its up to the governing bodies and other clubs to make sure they don't get away with it. I made a point yesterday that this isn't a sudden thing, this balance of power has been gradually tipping since the Billionaires started getting involved with clubs in 2003. Wouldnt it be brilliant if other clubs declared all out war on these big super clubs? I'd love to see the other 86 clubs in the football league threaten to break away from the current system. Start things up again and have a new league without the big 6, if they want to apply to join they'll have to start at the bottom of the pyramid and I mean the very bottom. Let's rid football of FIFA and have a new, open and transparent organisation that gets rid of the corrupt scumbags there now. Have fan owned clubs like they have in Germany to prevent things like this happening in the future and have a domestic scene similar to Germany with realistic ticket prices and sensible kickoff times. Part of me hopes this super league happens because that might be the catalyst for the bubble to burst and return the game to the fans. Even if it means clubs having to start from scratch again. I don't want a global super league where clubs are franchised from Liverpool to Singapore and I don't think fans in our country want that either. I think Liverpool fans for example would rather get behind a new team at an amateur level and watch them climb through the leagues again. It would be like a version of AFC Wimbledon but on a much larger scale. If it was a choice as well I think I'd rather the Boro went to the wall than be sucked into this new version of football. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,228 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I certainly think it's an interesting thing to consider, if we broke off from them or simply banned them from competing alongside us until they put this stupid idea to bed, how the broadcasters would react. Who would they follow? Sky, for example, right now are protecting the Premier League with all the power they can. It's beneficial for them to do that. But if we split from those 6 and they had the opportunity of buying into what those clubs do next or just sticking by the Premier League and the EFL, what would they do? It seems like it should be an easy answer, follow the clubs with the money, follow the potential viewing figures they would generate. But is it as simple as that? I'm not so sure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 25 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said: I certainly think it's an interesting thing to consider, if we broke off from them or simply banned them from competing alongside us until they put this stupid idea to bed, how the broadcasters would react. Who would they follow? Sky, for example, right now are protecting the Premier League with all the power they can. It's beneficial for them to do that. But if we split from those 6 and they had the opportunity of buying into what those clubs do next or just sticking by the Premier League and the EFL, what would they do? It seems like it should be an easy answer, follow the clubs with the money, follow the potential viewing figures they would generate. But is it as simple as that? I'm not so sure. Its hard to know fully what the consequences of something like that would be. The Premier league product without the big 6 would not be as desirable to TV companies especially overseas, there's no doubt about that. Obviously then the income of every other club would drop and big name players would move on. Commercially it would probably be a bad idea but wouldn't it be great if sporting competition and integrity were put above that. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Brunners 7,952 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 A couple of the Big 6 from England are apparently getting cold feet and are accusing Liverpool & Man U of "lying to them" Have to imagine it's Chelsea and City, who only joined the whole thing cause of FOMO in the first place! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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