Denzel Zanzibar 6,931 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 30 minutes ago, ABH said: He didn’t mention skin colour once and unlike you he certainly didn’t divide the players into groups based on the colour of their skin He didn't have to mention skin colour, it's pretty obvious the players aren't kneeling to highlight racial inequality for white players Link to post Share on other sites
Redcar Rioja 5,872 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 It's pretty obvious that a member of an ethnic minority group who were hounded and persecuted by the Nazi campaign of genocide and made to kneel while a bullet was put through the back of their heads that Holgate sees kneeling as something which is submissive in his Romani culture. I simply read it as to the Roma people kneeling is seen as a submissive act which was forced upon them by an aggressive oppressor who wanted to wipe them from the face of the earth, no more, no less. Where or even how a link to White Players are somehow being submissive to Black Players could possibly come from that I have no idea. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Holgate 0 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 That's exactly right. I don't want to see anyone kneel. I don't see it as an act of inclusivity. I don't want anyone or any race to be submissive. You stand against tyranny not kneel before it. Im much more interested in actual policies ensuring theres equality of opportunity. Not this. Link to post Share on other sites
Will 2,958 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, Mr Holgate said: That's exactly right. I don't want to see anyone kneel. I don't see it as an act of inclusivity. I don't want anyone or any race to be submissive. You stand against tyranny not kneel before it. Im much more interested in actual policies ensuring theres equality of opportunity. Not this. Choosing to kneel and being forced to kneel are completely different things. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Holgate 0 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Of course it was my reasoning for objecting and why I never will agree with it. There's also a great deal of negativity to people who don't agree with it. Automatically called racist and such without even a conversation about their rationale. Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,931 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 31 minutes ago, Mr Holgate said: Of course it was my reasoning for objecting and why I never will agree with it. There's also a great deal of negativity to people who don't agree with it. Automatically called racist and such without even a conversation about their rationale. It's the morons who boo it that I have an issue with. And nobody is forcing anyone to take the knee, all the players have the freedom not to. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Holgate 0 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 What if they too have genuine points? It's not like they can debate it. If there was booing of the knee and racism at the match I'd agree. The fact is there isn't. Or very isolated incidents of racism that should be dealt with legally. It's clearly a divisive gesture. Link to post Share on other sites
Will 2,958 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 15 hours ago, Mr Holgate said: What if they too have genuine points? It's not like they can debate it. If there was booing of the knee and racism at the match I'd agree. The fact is there isn't. Or very isolated incidents of racism that should be dealt with legally. It's clearly a divisive gesture. Anything can be divisive if people choose to make it divisive. Link to post Share on other sites
Humpty 3,246 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 15 hours ago, Mr Holgate said: What if they too have genuine points? It's not like they can debate it. If there was booing of the knee and racism at the match I'd agree. The fact is there isn't. Or very isolated incidents of racism that should be dealt with legally. It's clearly a divisive gesture. It is divisive, quite right. It divides those that are racist and those that are not. Lets be honest if the gesture to stand against racism was standing on your head with your left pinky in your ear, there'd be people who would find a reason to be against it. The gesture is immaterial, it's the reason behind the gesture that's important. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Holgate 0 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I don't like it and I'm not racist. I have mix raced children. They also consider it divisive. How about the likes of Taylor who have said he won't kneel. Is he racist too? Disagreement doesn't mean racist. Link to post Share on other sites
BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Just now, Mr Holgate said: I don't like it and I'm not racist. I have mix raced children. They also consider it divisive. How about the likes of Taylor who have said he won't kneel. Is he racist too? Disagreement doesn't mean racist. This is a thread about booing those that choose to take the knee. I know you don’t agree with the gesture, but would you boo those that did? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Holgate 0 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I haven't booed people taking a knee. But I also won't state that people who do are automatically racist. Will some of them be? Possibly. Theres virtually zero racist abuse of players at the Riverside. If all that booed were racist you'd hear it and the reality is u don't. I think any acts of racism should be dealt with as the criminal offence that they are. It's association with Marxism is an interesting debate. Some who boo will be considering that, others won't be. Mine is specific culturally. There were other gestures that wouldn't have been as divisive. Standing proudly together I think works much better for example. I can't remember anyone booing the kick racism out campaign and t shirts Link to post Share on other sites
Humpty 3,246 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 There is no association with marxism. More tripe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Will 2,958 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mr Holgate said: Theres virtually zero racist abuse of players at the Riverside. Having experienced it myself there most certainly isn't zero racist abuse of players at the Riverside. And given the lack of action from the club when I reported it, I highly doubt it's an isolated occurrence. Link to post Share on other sites
Dan1234 1,048 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 16 minutes ago, Mr Holgate said: I haven't booed people taking a knee. But I also won't state that people who do are automatically racist. Will some of them be? Possibly. Theres virtually zero racist abuse of players at the Riverside. If all that booed were racist you'd hear it and the reality is u don't. I think any acts of racism should be dealt with as the criminal offence that they are. It's association with Marxism is an interesting debate. Some who boo will be considering that, others won't be. Mine is specific culturally. There were other gestures that wouldn't have been as divisive. Standing proudly together I think works much better for example. I can't remember anyone booing the kick racism out campaign and t shirts Honestly mate you're flogging a dead horse trying to have a reasoned conversation with many of the people in this thread. Just let them scream loudly on twatter and internet forums. Link to post Share on other sites
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