Non-Boro Football

[2plus2 290]

I thought England played ok in bits. Ukraine look like a decent side and their goal was a bit special but I am not too down after the performance.

 

I'm completely with you on this Tyler. No complaints from me.

 

Ukraine put in a decent away performance and, whilst not great, aren't a bad side. England were missing a fair few key players and I think we were very unlucky to not score at least a few more (post, misses, saves, disallowed goal etc). On another day we would have won that game very comfortably with a similar showing. I'm often keen to point out England's failures and flaws, but they were very spirited and persisted with playing the ball along the turf. The lack of long balls was a breath of fresh air. So any likely overly critical media articles that have no doubt been written are undue in my opinion. England didn't win, but let's face it, we can't expect to come out of every game with three points, even against 'lesser' opposition. I was fairly happy with what I saw.

 

Also, that late equaliser was huge. It changes the dynamic of the group massively. So a draw is no disaster, though it leaves the group quite balanced. A win and I think we would have cruised the group. But a defeat and the pressure would have been on (probably couldn't afford any more slip ups). So in terms of the bigger picture it's not a bad outcome.

 

Ukraine played well.

 

Unlike England.

 

I really don't understand how anyone can think that Ukraine played better in that game. They put in a reasonable away performance, but they were pretty lucky really. They could have easily been blown away in this one. England missed some glaring chances (our own fault, admittedly, but Ukraine didn't exactly do much to prevent them). Also, the disallowed goal was debatable, the post saved them on a couple of occasions and Ukraine hardly created many chances of their own (I can only remember one or two genuine opportunities).

 

In terms of relative 'expectations', you comment bares some truth. But quite clearly Ukraine were on the back-foot for the vast majority of the game and the success of preventing England from scoring in open play was hardly all down to their defensive showing on the day.

 

Just like how England can often be overly complemented on a performance or ranking (ie. we are clearly no where near the third best team in the world, the media hype expectations ridiculously, and realistically we only have a small chance of winning a major tournament any time soon), I also think they can be overly criticised by some (ie. win, lose or draw, some people are never happy and are ready to criticise the team based purely on the fact that it's England, pretty much disregarding any other factors). There never seems to be a middle ground!

[tylergomez 53]

Totally with you on the no long balls thing 2+

In fact I agree with pretty much everything you said. Well done sir.

[richmfc 41]

i thought we passed the ball reasonably well and ukraine did there job as well as we did ours , the only criticism i would give is that our balls played around the back were just too slow . they took an age to get to the player and allowed the 1 forward they had to get across every time

[2plus2 290]

Yea you're right Rich. Room for improvement there. Though I can't see Jags being a regular starter and maybe his performance had something to do with it. Having said that, I was all for an Everton CB pairing at the Euros at one point (due to several factors), so despite his showing being one of the lesser ones to excel, I still rate him quite highly.

 

Looking forward to the San Marino game now in a month or so. We should score a boatload - less then 5 or 6 would be quite poor. I'm hoping for 10, though perhaps that's a little overly ambitious! But it's not completely unrealistic. San Marino are THAT bad!

 

Also, England friendlies vs Brazil and Rep of Ireland (both in 2013 I think) have just been announced. Two great fixtures in my opinion :)

[Tanksie 10]

Ukraine out played you in the middle of the park seriously, england players play like its the premier league. they can't hold the ball and against a lesser away team it showed badly. I hate the way Spain play but England are just the opposite. You must control the football match to win consistently ESPECIALLY at home. 50/50 possession to a lesser(but still decent) team is just unacceptable. Also your midfields lack of pace and energy was massively exposed by Yaramolenko and Konoplyanka. Lamps + Stevie G just can't work.

 

No it was not a shockingly bad performance against a shockingly bad team but if you think that's OK then don't cry if England get knocked out in a 2nd place play off or in the group stage. Because that's the football you played.

[2plus2 290]

Don't cry if England get knocked out in a 2nd place play off or in the group stage. Because that's the football you played.

 

I wouldn't be that surprised if this happened. We should qualify, and any less would clearly be an underachievement. But it's not the England of old. We're favourites, but definitely not dead certs! I certainly don't deem England as having any divine right to qualify. We're better then any team in the group, but we're not miles ahead of them all.

 

However...

 

Ukraine out played you in the middle of the park seriously

 

No. Sorry, but I literally have no concept of how anyone could think that. I almost think that comment is absurd. Their wonder goal came completely against the run of play in the first half. And the only time I felt they had any control of the midfield and the game was during a brief spell (maybe 10-15 mins) in the second half. Aside from that, we dominated. The stats may read 50-50 possession, but we rarely win this battle. England aren't the type of team to have 60%+ possession. Nor do we really have the type of players to do so. But we did a lot more with it (well, everything but score more anyway, which I understand is what really matters)! You can't say that creating a lot more chances always means that you deserve to win, so I won't say that. But had we had a little more luck or a little more composure with that final touch in front of goal, then we would have won that match at least 3-1 or better. Key elements to success were missing, but as far as I'm concerned we certainly outplayed them. Having said that, Ukraine came to Wembley and put in a performance that certainly does their cause no harm!

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but I just thoroughly disagree with it.

[Tanksie 10]

 

 

Ukraine out played you in the middle of the park seriously

 

No. Sorry, but I literally have no concept of how anyone could think that.

I'm not talking about creativity. Their midfield play had more movement and pace than yours. And stats don't lie. Equalish shots and Equal possession are unacceptable. And yes England could have won. but lets face it. you were lucky to get a draw. and as I said before that's unacceptable. But you don't seem to have silly expectations. I think if England play like this in brazil against the two lower teams in the group then you could be stung and we already know about what happens when you play better teams.

 

I will give Roy the benefit of the doubt. he has only just stepped in but the point is that England will need to improve markedly if they wish to achieve a solid brazil performance. And if roy wants to keep his job

 

Oh and it might help if you filled your stadium. And if the supporters actually did some singing.

[boroinbishop 65]

wouldnt say we were lucky to draw, how many chances did cleverley *** up?

[Tanksie 10]

wouldnt say we were lucky to draw, how many chances did cleverley *** up?

 

You equalized wit about 5 minutes to go and you don't feel lucky that you got away with a draw?:huh:

 

Yes cleverly fluffed a pair of chances and yes defoe got unlucky but overcoming such obstacles is part of winning.

[boroinbishop 65]

if we'd have scored in the 90th, we still would have deserved a draw

[richmfc 41]

i dont feel we are any luckier if we score in the last 5 or the first 5 , i didnt consider man utd lucky when they scored 2 in the last 5 at southampton.

we arent world beaters everyone knows that but to say we were outplayed is rubbish , as for 50% possesion , any team can make a 100 passes outside there own 18yd box it doesntmean anything ,

we looked dodgy first 15 min then we took control mostly apart from 2-3 times when theyshould have scored , there arent many whipping boys in international football any more , portugal scraped a win against luxembourg(wont say they were lucky) italy drew with bulgaria etc etc

[Neverbefore 10,942]

Nice to see I'm not the one arguing with the England fans for once :D

 

Didn't watch the match, so don't really have an opinion based on anything apart from the score. Which was a very poor score for a team with the aspirations England have (3rd in the world, Gerrard saying they could win the WC etc). Ukraine have a couple of quality players, but England should be on paper stronger in every area.

---

PS really excited about the England vs Ireland match in Feb. Gonna be great to see, and I will be praying we beat yous :D

[boroinbishop 65]

the FIFA rankings are a joke though, theres no way we're the 3rd best team in the world, we're an average side atm, in a few years when the younger players develop we might be up there, but not now

[Neverbefore 10,942]

Yeah, that was kinda tongue in cheek :P Aren't Brazil like 12th or something ridiculous? They mean absolutely nothing, I don't know why they bother with them anymore, since all they bring is controversy. If there's seeding to be done, use the performances of the previous qualifying campaign and thats all.

[Tanksie 10]

Fifa ratings are bunk. But Brazil being 12th is about right. Worst Brazilian and Argentinian teams i have seen in my lifetime.