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Just now, Brunners said:

Problem is I don't think the economy can survive another 6 months of this. I just don't see how we come out the other side of this with any semblance of a working economy. 

It's absolutely dreadful that the most significant economy-first party in our country can't deliver a meaningful way to defend the economy whilst protecting those who pretty unanimously voted them in just over a year ago. You'd think this was their territory to fight in and they're failing miserably.

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21 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

It's absolutely dreadful that the most significant economy-first party in our country can't deliver a meaningful way to defend the economy whilst protecting those who pretty unanimously voted them in just over a year ago. You'd think this was their territory to fight in and they're failing miserably.

I think if it wanted to, the government could find the money to carry on paying furlough and the self employed scheme so that we could lockdown to save lives whilst keeping businesses afloat.

They always find money to fight wars and this virus is a far bigger threat to many of us than a few Afghanis in the mountains or Sadam Hussein’s empty threats. The government has to do the right thing and protect all of its people.

 

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3 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I think if it wanted to, the government could find the money to carry on paying furlough and the self employed scheme so that we could lockdown to save lives whilst keeping businesses afloat.

They always find money to fight wars and this virus is a far bigger threat to many of us than a few Afghanis in the mountains or Sadam Hussein’s empty threats. The government has to do the right thing and protect all of its people.

That's my prevailing thought process too, Billy. It doesn't help that we're discussing this around the one thing we know has more money flowing through it than most things that catch our attention. Losing football clubs would be tragic but we're talking about businesses who, even in the rungs of the ladder that Peterborough operate in, can at a push spend over £1m on a single transfer fee. How does that garner the sympathy that leads to governments allowing them their people back at their stadiums?

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3 hours ago, Brunners said:

Like I said; without help Half the championship and everyone below will be bust before the end of the season. If football doesn't get any help, the landscape will look very different next season. Clubs flat out can not survive without fans.

Personally I'm now of the opinion that the Govt have handled this all terribly & we should not be going back into lockdown.

You can't blame it all on the government.

Too many people have abdicated their personal responsibility and ignored social distancing protocols.

Honestly I don't think any government of any political leaning would have handled it much better. Try to stamp the virus out and you risk the economy imploding, mass unemployment and businesses going bust. Try to keep the economy going and you risk people thinking everything's fine and dandy and the virus gets out of control.

Combined with the idiots who continued packing beaches, parks etc. during the hot weather, organising illegal raves, parties etc. blatantly refused to wear masks...because it infringed their personal liberties...

Then you've got the fact the advice from SAGE has been changing on a monthly or even weekly basis and they've had to respond to that. 

If you look at the global picture very few countries have come out of this well, apart from the likes of Sweden and South Korea.

Our government I think has tried to find a middle ground and while the picture still looks bleak on both counts (economically and virus-wise) it could be worse if they'd gone all in one way or the other.

The sad truth is, they tried to be lenient and give people as much freedom as possible after the lockdown, but instead of being sensible, far too many just decided to behave like idiots. So to a large degree they've only got themselves to blame IMO.

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Boris spent a million quid of tax payers money to paint his plane in the middle of June at the height of he pandemic. If you think these lads care about the economy, health or anything apart from lining their own pockets/boosting their own ego then your eyes have been shut for the last decade or so. 

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1 hour ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I think if it wanted to, the government could find the money to carry on paying furlough and the self employed scheme so that we could lockdown to save lives whilst keeping businesses afloat.

They always find money to fight wars and this virus is a far bigger threat to many of us than a few Afghanis in the mountains or Sadam Hussein’s empty threats. The government has to do the right thing and protect all of its people.

 

Wars are a separate issue altogether. As a member of NATO we're obliged to spend at least 2-3% of our GDP on defence...not to mention our military supports thousands of jobs and industries in its own right. Look at all the jobs and companies involved in building our new carriers, submarines and destroyers...

Funny how people forget about that side of our armed forces.

While I agree those particular conflicts were spectacularly ill-judged, as far as having no plan in place to organise & support democratic regimes once the tyrants had been removed (no "Exit Strategy") we are an ally of the US and pretty much expected to support them...for better or worse.

Back to the current situation, I'm pretty sure the government would extend the furlough scheme if another national lockdown is called, but I'd agree they need to do more to help those caught in local lockdowns.

Also worth remembering they have already poured hundreds of billions of pounds into various support schemes (without the money they spent on the NHS). Its not like they've been sitting on their hands.

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I honestly don't see how none league sides and players will survive 6 month's of no fan revenue. Then even League 2 and league 1 clubs even the championship. 

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18 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Boris spent a million quid of tax payers money to paint his plane in the middle of June at the height of he pandemic. If you think these lads care about the economy, health or anything apart from lining their own pockets/boosting their own ego then your eyes have been shut for the last decade or so. 

Hmm...a million quid repainting a plane versus the hundreds of billions poured into the NHS, furlough and business grant / support schemes.

Thats such a dumb comment I don't even need to point out the flawed logic.

I'm happy to criticise the government when they do make obvious and avoidable mistakes, but hopelessly blinkered, Labour-tinted comments like that serve no purpose whatsoever.

For the record I'm not a fan of BJ's bluster and rhetoric. Its good for winning elections, but less palatable when you're trying to manage a crisis. I will admit I've grown to like him less and less over the last several months.

But Boris is not the entire government. There's a whole cabinet, plus an army of advisors, civil servants etc. who are doing their best to get us through this.

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2 minutes ago, DurhamRed said:

I honestly don't see how none league sides and players will survive 6 month's of no fan revenue. Then even League 2 and league 1 clubs even the championship. 

They won't. That's the simple answer. None league clubs will go under for sure, all the national league clubs will, 99% of leagues 1 and 2 and probably 50% of the championship.

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11 minutes ago, DurhamRed said:

I honestly don't see how none league sides and players will survive 6 month's of no fan revenue. Then even League 2 and league 1 clubs even the championship. 

It is hugely worrying.

The only glimmer of light is that all sports have been suffering due the lack of crowds...football, rugby and cricket most notably. They've all been sending representatives to speak with Oliver Dowden (Culture Secretary) to highlight the seriousness of the situation.

They are all now saying they can't survive much more of this. We can only hope this leads to some action.

 

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8 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Hmm...a million quid repainting a plane versus the hundreds of billions poured into the NHS, furlough and business grant / support schemes.

Thats such a dumb comment I don't even need to point out the flawed logic.

I'm happy to criticise the government when they do make obvious and avoidable mistakes, but hopelessly blinkered, Labour-tinted comments like that serve no purpose whatsoever.

For the record I'm not a fan of BJ's bluster and rhetoric. Its good for winning elections, but less palatable when you're trying to manage a crisis. I will admit I've grown to like him less and less over the last several months.

But Boris is not the entire government. There's a whole cabinet, plus an army of advisors, civil servants etc. who are doing their best to get us through this.

So its okay to spend a million quid on something completely non essential and ego driven in the middle of a global pandemic leading to a global economic crisis? And then call it dumb to criticise it? 

To be honest I could spend all day listing the ways in which this government (which has been picked by boris on the basis of brexit support rather than any form of competence) has failed its people, but i learned a long time ago that facts mean nothing to people when it comes to this stuff, its all tribal. 

For the record, I do not support Labour, or any British party. Id like us the hell out of the "Union". But thats a whole other topic that I'm really not getting into on a boro forum!

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15 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Wars are a separate issue altogether. As a member of NATO we're obliged to spend at least 2-3% of our GDP on defence...not to mention our military supports thousands of jobs and industries in its own right. Look at all the jobs and companies involved in building our new carriers, submarines and destroyers...

Funny how people forget about that side of our armed forces.

While I agree those particular conflicts were spectacularly ill-judged, as far as having no plan in place to organise & support democratic regimes once the tyrants had been removed (no "Exit Strategy") we are an ally of the US and pretty much expected to support them...for better or worse.

Back to the current situation, I'm pretty sure the government would extend the furlough scheme if another national lockdown is called, but I'd agree they need to do more to help those caught in local lockdowns.

Also worth remembering they have already poured hundreds of billions of pounds into various support schemes (without the money they spent on the NHS). Its not like they've been sitting on their hands.

I’m certainly not knocking the government for the support schemes, I’ve benefitted myself from the self employed grant, I’m just hoping that it will be continued as I’ve done just eight days work since lockdown. 
 

My argument is, if governments can find money to fight unnecessary wars (the two listed above in particular) it can find the resources to keep the economy going.  I’m neither a Tory or Labour voter, but I do think the Tories acted too slowly and that the Labour Party have been ineffective in opposition, although I think part of the reason for that is that Labour don’t want to oppose the measures too strongly for fear of splitting opinion and causing disruption amongst the general public. 
 

As for football league clubs, it’s not their fault, but the fact that mediocre players are earning more in a week than the PM earns in a year does lead me to question the way clubs are run financially. In a lot of cases it’s all a massive gamble to get promoted and as my old man used to say if you gamble, you have to be prepared to lose. 

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43 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

I'm happy to criticise the government when they do make obvious and avoidable mistakes, but hopelessly blinkered, Labour-tinted comments like that serve no purpose whatsoever.

😬

I don't mean to tar you with a brush here AR but:

a) NB4 hasn't said anything about being a Labour supporter (and in fact, just above has dismissed such thoughts)
b) Discussing a frivolous spend on something unnecessary is not 'Labour-tinted' and only makes you sound like you take a tribal stance against a political party

In my opinion, the repainted plane served no purpose whatsoever and it 100% was done to 'better represent us globally', so it is as NB4 said, it was ego-driven, to make us look good. There are plenty of better ways to represent yourself as a country globally than a repainted plane. It's neither left, right nor centre to say that £900k of paint was a dumb idea executed during a time people were sat at home living off state-funded furlough schemes, wondering whether they'll be let go at any point soon.

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1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

You can't blame it all on the government.

Too many people have abdicated their personal responsibility and ignored social distancing protocols.

Annoyingly it's a mix of both of those first sentences you've written. The Government have gotten as much right as they have wrong, and at the same time some portions of the public do need to shoulder some of the blame. It goes hand in hand.

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But anyway back to football...obviously I don't want any clubs to go bust, but I do hope this pandemic, serves as a bit of a bubble burster. For far too long the majority of football clubs have been run at unsustainable levels. 

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