Non-Boro Football

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

12 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Well thats why there needs to be some common sense and calmness on both sides, instead of knee-jerk reactions.

Sorry mate but I think emotional reactions to potentially racist terms is thoroughly understandable.

[Will 2,958]

27 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Well thats why there needs to be some common sense and calmness on both sides, instead of knee-jerk reactions.

When you have different nationalities, speaking different languages involved, misunderstandings are even more likely.

The reports haven't given enough information for us to know exactly what was said, so equally we don't know that a slur was used.

I'm just going off the BBC report:

Istanbul forward Demba Ba, who was a substitute, could be seen on the touchline asking the official: "Why, when you mention a black guy, do you have to say this black guy?"

There is no mention anywhere in the article of an actual slur being used...though presumably more information will be made available after the investigation.

 

Al Jazeera have Pierre Webo (the person who it was aimed at) as asking the Fourth official why he referred to him as a negro at least 6 times.

https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2020/12/9/psg-basaksehir-teams-exit-pitch-after-game-marred-by-racist-slur

[SmogDane 4,055]

3 minutes ago, Will said:

Al Jazeera have Pierre Webo (the person who it was aimed at) as asking the Fourth official why he referred to him as a negro at least 6 times.

https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2020/12/9/psg-basaksehir-teams-exit-pitch-after-game-marred-by-racist-slur

Negru - black in romanian .. 

If I was official at a game .. and I had to pick out a black guy for my Danish colleague .. I would say "sort" .. which is Danish for black .. No one would bat an eye .. 

It's a huge misunderstanding, cause it sounds like the N word .. 

[Will 2,958]

Just now, SmogDane said:

Negru - black in romanian .. 

Yes, I read that when CT posted it. Doesn't mean that's actually what was said.

 

1 minute ago, SmogDane said:

It's a huge misunderstanding, cause it sounds like the N word .. 

If it is then the investigation will find him innocent of any wrongdoing.

That Al Jazeera article also has a piece from a Romanian source saying that even the use of negru would be considered offensive.

[TeaCider24 12,616]

6 minutes ago, Will said:

That Al Jazeera article also has a piece from a Romanian source saying that even the use of negru would be considered offensive.

It says that referring to a player using their race as an identifier is considered offensive, not that the word negru is.

Which I think is shaky ground as a stance, as it's clearly a common thing that happens in every aspect of society, and not just when referring to black people.

[SmogDane 4,055]

The great footballsite - bold.dk has this article .. Which supports the misunderstanding language theory .. 

https://www.bold.dk/fodbold/nyheder/psg-basaksehir-afbrudt-spillerne-udvandrede/

Maybe translate will make it readable for you.


 

[Will 2,958]

Just now, TeaCider24 said:

It says that referring to a player using their race as an identifier is considered offensive, not that the word negru is.

Which I think is shaky ground, as it's clearly a common thing that happens in every aspect of society, and not just when referring to black people.

Sorry I did mean the use of that word in this context, poor wording on my part.

[Brunners 7,981]

5 minutes ago, Will said:

Yes, I read that when CT posted it. Doesn't mean that's actually what was said.

 

If it is then the investigation will find him innocent of any wrongdoing.

That Al Jazeera article also has a piece from a Romanian source saying that even the use of negru would be considered offensive.

Yep, that article you posted has this quote:

Quote

“Our colleagues at the Romanian state anti- discrimination organisation have confirmed it is racist in Romanian to refer to a player by using his race as an identifier. There is no ambiguity. This incident shows the need for much better training of match officials. Unintentional racism is still racism.”

The fact that seemingly everyone involved from both teams seem to agree it was more than just a misunderstanding for the Romanian word for black, suggests to me there's more to it.

[SmogDane 4,055]

4 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Yep, that article you posted has this quote:

The fact that seemingly everyone involved from both teams seem to agree it was more than just a misunderstanding for the Romanian word for black, suggests to me there's more to it.

Time will tell .. 

I'm just saying .. it could be a case of the very political correct pitch fork being held high

[Brunners 7,981]

2 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

Time will tell .. 

I'm just saying .. it could be a case of the very political correct pitch fork being held high

At the end of the day I don't believe the 4th official was being racist - but as a professional referee in a continental competition featuring multiple religions, ethnicities, races, IMO you have to be more culturally switched on than that. Romania supposedly doesn't have the same history with African slavery as western Europe, but as a ref IMO they still need to be conscious of stuff like that. 

I understand the argument of "if he's the only black guy on the bench, isn't that the easiest way to identify him?" and sure, I just don't think it's the right move in a professional environment. 

The 4th official talks to coaches all the time, right? So why couldn't he just ask the guy for his name?!

TLDR: In a professional setting; IMO there are better ways to refer to someone than "the black guy" even if he is the only black guy.

[Will 2,958]

1 minute ago, SmogDane said:

Time will tell .. 

I'm just saying .. it could be a case of the very political correct pitch fork being held high

Again, if they believe he said the word negro, which they clearly did, it's nothing to do with political correctness.

[GrimsbyBoro 1,968]

5 minutes ago, Brunners said:

TLDR: In a professional setting; IMO there are better ways to refer to someone than "the black guy" even if he is the only black guy.

Should maybe put names or numbers on peoples shirts that might help.

[Brunners 7,981]

9 minutes ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

Should maybe put names or numbers on peoples shirts that might help.

To be fair it was a coach wearing a jacket that didn't have the initials on it.

[TeaCider24 12,616]

13 minutes ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

Should maybe put names or numbers on peoples shirts that might help.

I don't think the 4th official was wise to say what he did, but it was a member of the coaching staff, not a player, and there were 42 players plus the coaching staff to remember the names of.

He's not a regular referee of Basaksehir matches or of PSG, I presume the coach had his initials on his jacket, as happens over here, but it's very possible he just might not have known Pierre Webo's name.

Then again, are 4th officials provided with a list of the names of players and coaching staff? That's quite possible and makes it less defensible. 

[Brunners 7,981]

Here's the exact quote of what was said:

'The black one over there. Go and check who he is. The black one over there, it's not possible to act like that'

In Romanian this wouldn't be considered racist, but as I said, I think it's unprofessional and a bit culturally insensitive.

No racist intent but a bit of a dumb thing to say in the environment.