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1 minute ago, wilsoncgp said:

The referee and his assistants don't get involved in a lot of the match, how much do you actually want them to get involved for the sake of avoiding injuries? This is what I just don't understand, your argument appears to be that the act of playing football has lead to an injury and because the officials could have intercepted continued play, they could have avoided the situation where a player was injured... so they should?

How often should the referee stop play to avoid injuries? This is what I just cannot understand about your point here. Like, do you actually just not want contact to occur anywhere on the pitch and want the rules to stop play more frequently to prevent potential collisions? Surely if your problem with this incident is that play continues and can lead to injuries, your problem isn't with the late flags as such, it's what the late flag allows, which is football to be played where contact can occur.

Why are you even in favour of letting the players on the pitch to begin with? I just don't get it.

You've completely missed my point mate and you're now throwing in other elements to make me look like I'm arguing for anything but my original point. The game of football should have stopped once Salah was offside, but it didn't, from that a needless injury happened.

When have I said playing football causes injuries? At what point have I said referees need to intervene to prevent injuries? When I have I said that there should be no contact? The late flag wrongly allows the game to continue and then contact to happen, that is my issue.

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3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Mate, you're literally saying play amounts to an injury. I don't know what else you want me to take from that. It's not the offside flag, it's that it doesn't go up and play continues so an injury can happen. So play causes an injury. By all means, you can actually respond to that or you could be a child, it's up to you, I guess.

Ok. Should the game continue if someone is offside? 
Why are you resorting to calling me a child now! haha

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2 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

So you could be a *** about it or you could explain your point. You've added precisely zero to this discussion.

Both Dan and I have been over this, there is really nothing else to say.
 

You are either being deliberately obtuse or you are so pro VAR that you are going to argue against any of its negative points. 

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28 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Ok. Should the game continue if someone is offside? 
Why are you resorting to calling me a child now! haha

You decided not to respond to my point there, only to respond with a GIF instead of actually fighting back to what I'm attributing to you. You still aren't actually giving a genuine response to that, responding with a question isn't a response but I'll give you my answer nonetheless.

I thought I'd been relatively clear with my opinion on this but I think the game should continue and the offside should be reviewed after the play has completed rather than influence the flow of the game. If the player scores, the goal will count if the player is onside and won't count if they're offside.

I'll say this again. Your problem now appears to be that play continues where it might not and injuries occur most often during play. But it is a contact sport and injuries will happen across the full 90 minutes that can be avoided by taking decisions that reduce the amount of play that is actually done. So are you in favour of football being played? Of it being a contact sport? How far would you go to prevent contact within the sport? And why, as a result of your opinion on this course of events, is that such a stupid question to ask? The latter question is the only conclusion I can come to given you didn't actually respond to me the first time.

EDIT - I just seen your response before that, I'll have a look now.

27 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Both Dan and I have been over this, there is really nothing else to say.

You are either being deliberately obtuse or you are so pro VAR that you are going to argue against any of its negative points. 

I'm challenging the notion that the offside flag is related to injuries occurring in games, I've been clear from the start that I just don't see the connection between those two things. I'm not being deliberately obtuse, nor do I find it hard to argue against VAR where I think it's actually a problem but if you actually have something to say to me in response, please feel free to step up to the podium. You haven't said a word to me on my points, Dan for the most part has responded whilst you've essentially taken up the role of the parliamentary back-bencher, giving it a 'hear hear' and laughing in response to a view that challenges your own.

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This argument has been going on for days and to be honest it’s not important enough for me to invest too much emotion, I’ve made my point but it really doesn’t matter. 
 

I’m currently sat on a bench outside the hospital whilst my terminally ill wife is fighting for consciousness, so I really don’t want to go down a wormhole on a football forum. 

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2 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

This argument has been going on for days and to be honest it’s not important enough for me to invest too much emotion, I’ve made my point but it really doesn’t matter. 
 

I’m currently sat on a bench outside the hospital whilst my terminally ill wife is fighting for consciousness, so I really don’t want to go down a wormhole on a football forum. 

Then why are you throwing shade at me for it? Come on.

I have nothing but sympathy with you and your situation though, Billy. I'll keep my fingers crossed for her and yourself on this.

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24 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

You decided not to respond to my point there, only to respond with a GIF instead of actually fighting back to what I'm attributing to you.

Sorry mate the GIF was only meant in jest!

24 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I thought I'd been relatively clear with my opinion on this but I think the game should continue and the offside should be reviewed after the play has completed rather than influence the flow of the game. If the player scores, the goal will count if the player is onside and won't count if they're offside.

I think that is the crux of our disagreement, we are looking at it from 2 different angles. I'm of the opinion that the on-field officials should have the first say and then VAR should step in if something is obviously wrong. For example if someone is offside, but the linesman doesn't raise his flag, then scores that's when VAR should step in and make a decision. If the linesman flags offside it is then offside and VAR doesn't step in.

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5 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

This argument has been going on for days and to be honest it’s not important enough for me to invest too much emotion, I’ve made my point but it really doesn’t matter. 
 

I’m currently sat on a bench outside the hospital whilst my terminally ill wife is fighting for consciousness, so I really don’t want to go down a wormhole on a football forum. 

I'm sorry to hear that mate! If you ever need to chat just let me know.

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7 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

This argument has been going on for days and to be honest it’s not important enough for me to invest too much emotion, I’ve made my point but it really doesn’t matter. 
 

I’m currently sat on a bench outside the hospital whilst my terminally ill wife is fighting for consciousness, so I really don’t want to go down a wormhole on a football forum. 

My thoughts are with you and your wife Billy. Hope you find the strength to come through this 

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Just now, DanFromDownSouth said:

I think that is the crux of our disagreement, we are looking at it from 2 different angles. I'm off the opinion that the on-field officials should have the first say and then VAR should step in if something is obviously wrong. For example if someone is offside, but the linesman doesn't raise his flag, then scores that's when VAR should step in and make a decision. If the linesman flags offside it is then offside and VAR doesn't step in.

I think this is probably where I'll put this to bed for now but just to say I kind of understand where you're coming from with relation to the actual call for offside, we disagree on it because I'm absolutely about getting the call correct and I think in most offside scenarios, the official isn't best placed to make the decision, even sometimes in the immediate view of the incidents.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think VAR's current handling of offside is great either but I do think that is also for the most part down to the rule itself, the biggest issues people have talked about with VAR in relation to offside as far as I can tell are those that involve stupidly fractional decisions that offer the attacking players minimal benefit. I think the solution involves VAR in some form, it involves introducing some kind of margin for error and involves reducing the friction between VAR and the on-site officials so that they can work together more seamlessly and move away from what, in my eyes, is a poorly administrated team. I think the current role of VAR being seen as secondary has things the wrong way around and is ironically only done to maintain the idea that VAR is a secondary system. 

But just to finish, I'll reiterate that I cannot see any significant justification for reintroducing the immediate offside flag to reduce injuries. My read of it is that injuries happen during real-time play, collisions like those happened to Rui Patricio could have occurred at any point during play and you're not going to prevent anything like that from happening just from reintroducing that immediate flag. The collision has happened the same way it could have happened if Salah wasn't offside so it makes no difference to me. The only way you definitively prevent that kind of accident is by reducing contact from the sport, which is why I said all those things in a previous post. Unless we're so concerned with those kind of accidents so as to actually reduce contact then we're not solving a problem at all. I don't want players to get injured but at some point you have to accept you can't significantly take that aspect of football away without significantly changing the way the game that is played.

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45 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

This argument has been going on for days and to be honest it’s not important enough for me to invest too much emotion, I’ve made my point but it really doesn’t matter. 
 

I’m currently sat on a bench outside the hospital whilst my terminally ill wife is fighting for consciousness, so I really don’t want to go down a wormhole on a football forum. 

Thoughts and prayers with you both!

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1 hour ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

This argument has been going on for days and to be honest it’s not important enough for me to invest too much emotion, I’ve made my point but it really doesn’t matter. 
 

I’m currently sat on a bench outside the hospital whilst my terminally ill wife is fighting for consciousness, so I really don’t want to go down a wormhole on a football forum. 

Understand your previous comments now about being able to vent off on the forum.

Mate I am so sad to hear your news all I hope is that your wife can have a dignified and painless time that she has left and that you can still share some good moments.

You have a lot of support here on the forum Billy

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Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers. I probably shouldn’t have made things public, but I was at as very low ebb. It’s been a difficult year, not made better by COVID. Lockdown bucket lists aren’t very exciting when you can’t travel or meet up with people. 
I’m hoping that my wife, Sue will get over this current crisis, it’s been bought on by too much chemo and radiotherapy. Hopefully I’ll have her back home and we can indeed have some quality time together. 
 

This forum has been a godsend, especially over the last 5 weeks that she’s been in hospital, so I’ll try not to fall out with all of you, as it’s valuable to have human contact!

 

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4 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers. I probably shouldn’t have made things public, but I was at as very low ebb. It’s been a difficult year, not made better by COVID. Lockdown bucket lists aren’t very exciting when you can’t travel or meet up with people. 
I’m hoping that my wife, Sue will get over this current crisis, it’s been bought on by too much chemo and radiotherapy. Hopefully I’ll have her back home and we can indeed have some quality time together. 
 

This forum has been a godsend, especially over the last 5 weeks that she’s been in hospital, so I’ll try not to fall out with all of you, as it’s valuable to have human contact!

 

I will be hoping and praying that you and your wife Sue get lots of quality time together, as for falling out with people Billy not a problem, keep posting your thoughts and opinions its what this forums about.

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