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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

What currently exists is an imbalance, it's an imperfect system that is weighted in favour of clubs with more wealth who are more willing and able to capitalise and increase that wealth. But the system is still there, the possibility is still there for someone to challenge that, even if it requires investment to do so. 10 years ago, Leicester were in the same position we were, mid-table mediocrity in the Championship. Where are they now? I'm not saying we will end up there by any means but someone in our position could in 10 years be doing what Leicester are doing now with the right investment. If the system stays the same. Is that not relative success?

And is relative success not meaningful? If so, why do we even have a 2nd division or below? Why do Hartlepool United even exist? Further to challenge that, why are you still a Boro fan if you ask what's the point of us even existing? I find that aspect absolutely baffling, to be honest.

What's being proposed isn't just a further imbalance, it is something that takes our sport and says teams with the largest brand recognition are undoubtedly the elite in our continent. It takes what sporting integrity is left at the top of the game and rips it to shreds. They'll say right now they want to be part of our domestic league but they don't value it, they don't value its history, its legacy. They don't want to evolve our game, they want a revolution that favours just them as they see themselves as the only meaningful members of their respective leagues.

And this isn't just about how that affects the integrity of sport, about aspirations and dreams from players, managers and fans to achieve, however much those are simply dreams a lot of the time. The Aston Villa chief exec has just come out and made it quite clear what else this means; it means that they don't need to worry about hiring a bad manager or making bad decisions on signing players because they have certainty in a huge portion of their income. Now, you can say they don't need to worry about that either but the league table this season for the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs might not deliver them what they feel they need to achieve with the system as it stands. Take a look at our own club, our own failure to achieve our goals and where do we point the finger? We certainly don't blame the league or the pandemic, we blame ourselves, we can be better. That, for these clubs, is not the problem.

Just as a final point around dominance, the Prem has been around for 30 years this year, right? In that time United have dominated that the most with 13 titles with Chelsea and what is sure to be City joint 2nd place on 5 titles, in total there has been 7 different winners. In the 30 years prior to that, there were only 8 different winners, Liverpool dominated that time with 13 titles, Everton 2nd in line with 4 titles. The names have changed since the Premier League began but the distribution hasn't changed an awful lot at all.

I don't know whether you've misunderstood my post or whether I have made my point very well, but let me make one thing clear. I don't think anything about this proposal is good, its a disgrace and I'd be over the moon if the 6 of them were turfed out for good. 

What I was saying is that all this moral outrage should have been happening years ago. The game that most of us grew up loving has been gradually eroded over the last few decades. It isn't about the fans or sporting integrity at the top, its about pure greed and has been for years. 

Just because the current system is better than the new proposed system it doesn't mean I should be happy with it.

To counter a few of your examples, to take Hartlepool as a club, I can remember a time where Wimbledon climbed up the pyramid and fans of clubs that size could always dream of doing the same. That will never happen now. 

You mention Leicester (I knew someone would use them as an example). They won the lottery when a billionaire bought them and they broke FFP rules to get promoted. How many clubs have sold their souls to foreign owners and got themselves into debt trying to do a Leicester. Its not a good model to try and copy really. 

Finally, you ask me why I bother. Well its in the blood isn't it? There's no logic behind it but the majority of the magic has gone from the game. I grew up watching us be crap in the 80s but even then you could dream about finding a good manager, and crop of good young players and doing what Forest did under Clough. Now its either find a billionaire or simply exist. 

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3 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

Felt sick for the last day over this.

The term legacy fans says it all, hope the government nationalises all 6 of them.

There are more fans of the big clubs around the world than there are domestically.  That's where the money is.

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3 hours ago, nunthorpered said:

Gibson would absolutely hate the fan ownership model haha. Ego would take too much of a hit

Hi Steve, it's me Changing Times, I've been chosen as the fans representative on the board.  There are going to be some changes around the place, laddo!

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2 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Hi Steve, it's me Changing Times, I've been chosen as the fans representative on the board.  There are going to be some changes around the place, laddo!

I'm sure that wouldn't go horribly!

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1 hour ago, Blanco said:

So long as Cork City don’t push themselves to the front and try take the place of Bray 😃

I heard a rumour Linfield are happy to step in to make sure there's some Irish representation. 😁

 

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9 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

There are more fans of the big clubs around the world than there are domestically.  That's where the money is.

Which is everything that's wrong with football now.

Chasing the money of people with no connection to the area and club over the people who should be at the forefront of every decision.

Don't want to speak too strongly in their favour as they could yet u-turn, but I'm really proud of the stance taken by the German clubs, and I expect part of that is due to 50+1.

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48 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

WOnder if this will be with immediate effect. Football is in absolute turmoil

Wow - hope they can make this stick. For all the crap that UEFA and FIFA have been involved in over the last few years, I am 100% behind them on this.

 

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5 minutes ago, Brunners said:

I'm sure that wouldn't go horribly!

Haha! To be honest I don't think he could do much worse than the current incumbents. The guy knows how to think big.

For all we like to make fun of Anthony...I mean CT, he does show some impressive glimpses of intelligence now and again.

 

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5 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Haha! To be honest I don't think he could do much worse than the current incumbents. The guy knows how to think big.

For all we like to make fun of Anthony...I mean CT, he does show some impressive glimpses of intelligence now and again.

 

This man gets it 🙌

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

There are more fans of the big clubs around the world than there are domestically.  That's where the money is.

Liverpool's owners are now publicly more concerned about their global 'fans of the future' than maintaining the Merseyside derby, part of the foundations that a club like Liverpool have been built upon in the 70s and the 80s. More bothered about the ESL than being part of the English pyramid.

It's all horrid but I'm kind of happy in a way that it's all out in the open and they've shown their true colours quite publicly for a change.

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Of all the offensive aspects of this proposal, it's the use of the phrase "legacy fans" that really makes bile creep up my throat. As if Qatari and Chinese subscribers to ESL+ TV will be more valid than people who actually support(ed) the clubs.

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