Jump to content
oneBoro Forum

Non-Boro Football


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I think there are two aspects to the Derby case. MM will not be personally liable for any punishment because that's the nature of things unfortunately, he should be along with other owners but he won't be. SG noted years ago that their spending power seemed far below what they were actually splashing out. There is a lot more to it than just Waghorn and a CB, those two are just the tip of the iceberg.

What iceberg?  They've already been cleared of four charges against them.  The problem with all of this is that lots of things are getting mixed in with this like the ground sale.  The ground sale has been passed as ok.  Gibson can be as angry as he likes with that but it's done and it's fine.  I agree with him that it's complete nonsense but then I think FFP is nonsense so whatever.  The only thing they've been done on is the amortisation method used.  So then the question is did they breach FFP rules in 2018/19 period, and did this lead to Middlesbrough football club suffering some kind of material loss? I don't think Gibson is seriously looking for a big bit of compo, I believe he's just making a point, and probably wants the legal fees covered, as someone else has suggested.  His issue will be with Morris rather than Derby I'd say, cos he knows from his own experience that ultimately the football club simply reflects what the owner has decided to do.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 34.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  •  

    1582

  •  

    1478

  •  

    1365

  •  

    1232

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Their is a fascinating article about the Boro in today’s Athletic... Nine championship games in 29 days.  Following a team in their maddest run ever.    Neil Warnock was on the pit

Centuries ago Villages had ducking stools whereby if the person drowned they were innocent and if they lived they were guilty and sentenced to death. Nowadays not much has changed sadly. Idiots postin

Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers. I probably shouldn’t have made things public, but I was at as very low ebb. It’s been a difficult year, not made better by COVID. Lockdown bucket lists aren’t

Posted Images

4 minutes ago, CrazyL said:

The point where a club tries to overturn a result via the courts is on the horizon I think. It’ll probably be South America first but it’ll be happening routinely in a decade or so IMO.

I hope you're wrong but it wouldn't surprise me at all sadly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Brunners said:

Not to mention a lot of the Derby trolls are on twitter - we would have plenty of those too. It would have been interesting to see what their forum was like at the time, for example, I bet they had their fair share of concerned people too.

Imagine the likes of DZ and Humpty representing us to the wider world 😳 Makes me shudder just thinking about it 😨

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I'm looking forward to the bit when one of the teams have lost, and then they sue the other team cos somebody placed the ball in the wrong spot.  I think that's how all sport should be settled these days - in the courts 👍

Tennis is 🎾 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

It's clear that you like to see Derby fans as the poor victims here which they to a degree are but so are Wycombe, Rotherham and other Clubs fans who have suffered because of DCFC's cheating and I know where my sympathies lie firstly and foremost. That's before I even consider our own fans who just might have had a slender chance of being in the Premiership or at least had a crack at the Play Offs on merit regardless of how poor we feel Boro were under Pulis (and we were absolutely abysmal but two wrongs don't make a right).

 

It's Football, the Club they supported cheated, not just a little bit like a dive in the box but on a massive scale. I think I may have a little more empathy with them if I felt their fans were ashamed and disgusted at what has gone on but I'm not getting that, or at least not just yet and it's not as if they haven't had long enough to process things.

The thing is mate is I do support the point punishments because I feel they are significantly better responses to the situation in front of us. Our problem is their cheating earned them more points so the punishment being a substantial enough deduction is the right way to punish that. Putting them out of business is so, so far beyond that. 137 years of history gone because some cowboy destroyed their club.

Nobody on here who wouldn't bat an eyelid to them ceasing to exist seems to care about the effect that would have on a community, which coming from Middlesbrough really, truly shocks me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Will said:

You say people need to grow up but then say something like this. People can think for themselves, and therefore absolutely can be blamed for believing nonsense.

Lets compare Derby's last set of published accounts (covering the 17/18 season, should be a big red flag to their fans that they haven't published the last two seasons worth of accounts) to ours from the same year. Firstly, we had our last year of parachute payments here, so had significantly high income than Derby.

Revenue:

Derby - £29m

Boro - £62m

Wage Bill:

Derby - £38m (131% of revenue)

Boro - £48m (77% of revenue)

Their wage bill was climbing (25% up on the previous year) while their revenue wasn't. Any fan can access these accounts and know that this is unsustainable. Hell even our spending was unsustainable and we had significantly more income than they did. Their wage bill was in line with clubs who had been relegated from the Premier League ffs. 

I'm not sure why you're dismissing the ability of fans to effect change if there is enough will. There simply wasn't a will from their fans, because they were happy to go along for the ride and not ask the difficult questions that reading their accounts should bring to mind.

What's that got to do with anything though?  I definitely paints a picture but it's almost meaningless in terms of FFP, and it doesn't look at the period in question either.  The way that FFP rules have been made, one year doesn't matter by itself for example.  Even then, how many fans would understand what they were looking at with a set of accounts?  How many would know where to find them?  How many would even care?  I'd say that most fans aren't interested in the financial side of things, and some that are wouldn't really understand what they were looking at anyway.

It's one thing to doubt an owner about a managerial appointment.  Most everyone has an opinion on that kind of thing, without any expertise other than being a fan of course usually.  However, if an owner says it's ok, we can afford this, then the vast majority of people will go along with that because they won't know any different, and rightly or wrongly they will assume that the owner is going to do what's right by their club.  I think Boro, and by inference Gibson, have made some terrible decisions over the last 5 years or so with regards to our spending, but I still trust him to do what's right by the club overall.  If I didn't have a clue about accounts then I would happily go along with whatever we do believing that Gibson will make sure that everything is ok.  Derby fans will have been doing the same with Morris, and believed him when he said it was fine etc.

The rules state that the club needs to be punished with a deduction of points if they've failed FFP, and they will be, so that's that.  However, anyone being blase about the future existence of their football club is a *** idiot, and needs to grow up as Wilson has said.  Remember the club you support, and it's history, and if you don't know it then make the effort to find out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ABH said:

The EFL knew what derby where doing 2-3 years ago if they had done something about it then derby might not be in administration now.

I think there is a possibility that the EFL didn't understand what Derby were doing.  Although again, it's worth pointing out that their breach of FFP is apparently only £4m, at least this is what has been claimed.  A breach is a breach but there have been worse breaches, it's just that those clubs won promotion essentially.  I was trying to remember what our position was during the 2015/16 season when we got promoted.  From memory it wasn't exactly pretty so Iust had a look and we made a £26m loss in that season.

To go back to what Will put up earlier where Derby had revenues of £29m and a wage bill of £38m, making wages 131% of revenue.  We had revenues of £21.6m and a wage bill of £32.3m, making wages 149.5% of wages in 2015/16.  The season before we were at about 100%, the year before that it was about 126%.  The last accounts we published it was up at 160%.  So maybe we aren't the best people to be throwing stones at another club about this stuff?

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I think there is a possibility that the EFL didn't understand what Derby were doing.  Although again, it's worth pointing out that their breach of FFP is apparently only £4m, at least this is what has been claimed.  A breach is a breach but there have been worse breaches, it's just that those clubs won promotion essentially.  I was trying to remember what our position was during the 2015/16 season when we got promoted.  From memory it wasn't exactly pretty so Iust had a look and we made a £26m loss in that season.

To go back to what Will put up earlier where Derby had revenues of £29m and a wage bill of £38m, making wages 131% of revenue.  We had revenues of £21.6m and a wage bill of £32.3m, making wages 149.5% of wages in 2015/16.  The season before we were at about 100%, the year before that it was about 126%.  The last accounts we published it was up at 160%.  So maybe we aren't the best people to be throwing stones at another club about this stuff?

Well said CR.........check out what Erimus has renamed you!

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are far worse things going on in Football right now which makes Mel Morris look like a Saint in comparison whether it be the paltry punishment meted out to Hungary (or the fact the game was even played there in the first instance) or that slave labour is being used to build the very World Cup Stadia that they are competing to play in. 

Calling people idiots or stating they need to grow up doesn't win any argument and quite frankly it's uncalled for on here, it isn't FMTTM. This forum is better than that. If a Football Club ceases to exist it's a shame but in the scheme of things it's really not that important and that includes Boro. Clearly some disagree, it's fine it's not unusual for people to hold different views based on their thoughts, experiences and opinions, there isn't a right or wrong answer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Redcar Rioja said:

There are far worse things going on in Football right now which makes Mel Morris look like a Saint in comparison whether it be the paltry punishment meted out to Hungary (or the fact the game was even played there in the first instance) or that slave labour is being used to build the very World Cup Stadia that they are competing to play in. 

Calling people idiots or stating they need to grow up doesn't win any argument and quite frankly it's uncalled for on here, it isn't FMTTM. This forum is better than that. If a Football Club ceases to exist it's a shame but in the scheme of things it's really not that important and that includes Boro. Clearly some disagree, it's fine it's not unusual for people to hold different views based on their thoughts, experiences and opinions, there isn't a right or wrong answer.

Your experience as a Boro fan, and a football fan in general, should lend you to being more sympathetic to clubs facing an uncertain future.  And yeah I think you're an idiot if it doesn't.  I guess that's my opinion and it's one I stand by completely 🤷‍♂️

Link to post
Share on other sites

I often think by the grace of god go I, however I do not believe so does not apply to me.

I do have sympathy for other fans and what they go through and we really did get very close to following MFC Northern League, in todays model standards I woner just how we would have fared?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Your experience as a Boro fan, and a football fan in general, should lend you to being more sympathetic to clubs facing an uncertain future.  And yeah I think you're an idiot if it doesn't.  I guess that's my opinion and it's one I stand by completely 🤷‍♂️

In your opinion  "my experience" should lend me to being more sympathetic, how sympathetic should I be exactly on a scale from 1 to 10 where 10 is a dyed in the wool Ram?

I'd say I was probably a 5 in this instance whereas you seem to think than anyone less than say a 9 or 10 is an idiot because that's your opinion (which you are very much entitled to). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

In your opinion  "my experience" should lend me to being more sympathetic, how sympathetic should I be exactly on a scale from 1 to 10 where 10 is a dyed in the wool Ram?

I'd say I was probably a 5 in this instance whereas you seem to think than anyone less than say a 9 or 10 is an idiot because that's your opinion (which you are very much entitled to). 

Your experience as a fan of a club that came perilously close to going out of business itself.  Maybe you wouldn't have been all that bothered about it, I really don't know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Downsouth said:

I often think by the grace of god go I, however I do not believe so does not apply to me.

I do have sympathy for other fans and what they go through and we really did get very close to following MFC Northern League, in todays model standards I woner just how we would have fared?

Fortunately thanks to SG and the others at the time we will never know but others like Chester, Airdrie, Darlo, Halifax, Gateshead, Coventry, Accrington, Wimbledon, Scarborough, Leeds and Glasgow Rangers managed to salvage something and come back from Administration, winding up or going bust. Even Chelsea were on the brink before Ken Bates bought them for a quid or something, it's fair to say that they haven't done too badly since.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...