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11 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

He's ahead of all of them for me.

The best manager in history.

What he did with Aberdeen is almost as impressive as the long dominance he had with Man United.

Bob Paisley's achievement were very impressive too though, he'd definitely be in with a shout.

What Clough did was incredible, but the impressive parts were over a relatively narrow period.

He managed Forest for 15 years, his major achievements there were over a 3 year period at the start, though obviously the English ban in Europe will have played a major part in what he could have won.

Good point..  his achievements with Aberdeen were probably even worthier than with Man U as obviously much less cash available in comparison with Glasgow clubs...  Think with Clough, he was successful with two clubs that were more or less built from scratch and Busby and Stein also didn't go for big money signings. Difficult to assess more modern managers as some clubs can literally just buy ANY footballer and say you have X,Y, and Z and the opposition has a team that costs 10% of those three. Makes the achievements of someone like Dyche even more remarkable when realistically, his team is probably poorer than Fulham squad wise.. Think what I was thinking is who did best with lowest outlays and signing (relatively) unknowns rather than splashing the cash..  Bobby Robson probably worth a shout thinking about it and sure that there are a few others to consider... Maybe BD and SD and the gang can come up with a few from the outside world 🙂  

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12 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

What Clough did was incredible, but the impressive parts were over a relatively narrow period.

He managed Forest for 15 years, his major achievements there were over a 3 year period at the start, though obviously the English ban in Europe will have played a major part in what he could have won.

You're overlooking Clough taking Derby (who were as unfashionable then as they are today) from the second division to the First Division title. That took a while to accomplish, but it was a staggering achievement - the equivalent of if Leicester had won the PL with Nigel Pearson in charge rather than Ranieri taking over mid-project. 

Clough was a cantankerous old *** at times, but as a manager, he's up there with the very best we've ever seen. Ditto Ferguson - his last title with Man United was achieved with a pretty poor squad by historic standards, and their immediate decline after he left was no surprise.

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1 hour ago, RiseAgainst said:

You're overlooking Clough taking Derby (who were as unfashionable then as they are today) from the second division to the First Division title. That took a while to accomplish, but it was a staggering achievement - the equivalent of if Leicester had won the PL with Nigel Pearson in charge rather than Ranieri taking over mid-project. 

Clough was a cantankerous old *** at times, but as a manager, he's up there with the very best we've ever seen. Ditto Ferguson - his last title with Man United was achieved with a pretty poor squad by historic standards, and their immediate decline after he left was no surprise.

I'm not questioning the idea that Clough was a great manager, he clearly was.

I just think Sir Alex Ferguson was better.

I'd also say that what Leicester achieved isn't equivalent to Derby because of just how different the finances in football are now to back then.

Still a brilliant achievement, but Leicester's was far bigger.

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6 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

I'm not questioning the idea that Clough was a great manager, he clearly was.

I just think Sir Alex Ferguson was better.

It's an interesting comparison - Fergie achieved a lot more success over a far longer period. However, he didn't take Man United from the second tier to the First Division title. Clough was signing journeymen and kids at Derby, dragging performances out of players that even they didn't think they were capable of.

Both managers' first jobs were their greatest achievements when viewed in context - Clough at Derby and Fergie at Aberdeen. It's much easier to be a serial winner when you're bankrolled handsomely and great players are desperate to sign for you.

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2 hours ago, Brunners said:

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This is the Sheff Utd owners.

Thank god for Steve Gibson...

Was just about to post this up too...

So I think we've gotten to the bottom of whether Chris Wilder can work with "higher ups" or not. 

Looks like Prince Abdullah is fed up of his toy, those comments are a total disgrace. 

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4 hours ago, Brunners said:

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This is the Sheff Utd owners.

Thank god for Steve Gibson...

Aww yeah, cos were so different aren't we? 🙂

Let's have a look at a few things: 

I mean let's begin with other than saying Paul was the outstanding candidate, what's the difference between them appointing Heckingbottom and us appointing Woodgate?

Their 'plan' sounds an awful lot like our 'plan' when we appointed Woodgate as well.

Didn't we also essentially decide not to go with Jokanovic at this point in time?

The situation is virtually identical 🤷‍♂️

This Yusuf bloke is their equivalent of Bausor.  Is Bausor a 'football man'?  I think his background is finance isn't it?  This Yusuf chap is a lawyer so what's the difference?  I imagine Bausor thinks he is a football man now but I'm not so sure myself, and I doubt most on here would hold him in high regard on that score.  Being a Chairman of a business is more about leadership and strategic vision anyway.  You're overseeing what's going on and trying to deliver what the owner or shareholders are looking for.

We don't hear much from Gibson these days, in fact we hear bugger all most of the time.

And if you think he cares what we as fans think about who he appoints as a manager, I'd say that you're out of your mind.

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12 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Aww yeah, cos were so different aren't we? 🙂

Let's have a look at a few things: 

I mean let's begin with other than saying Paul was the outstanding candidate, what's the difference between them appointing Heckingbottom and us appointing Woodgate?

Their 'plan' sounds an awful lot like our 'plan' when we appointed Woodgate as well.

Didn't we also essentially decide not to go with Jokanovic at this point in time?

The situation is virtually identical 🤷‍♂️

This Yusuf bloke is their equivalent of Bausor.  Is Bausor a 'football man'?  I think his background is finance isn't it?  This Yusuf chap is a lawyer so what's the difference?  I imagine Bausor thinks he is a football man now but I'm not so sure myself, and I doubt most on here would hold him in high regard on that score.  Being a Chairman of a business is more about leadership and strategic vision anyway.  You're overseeing what's going on and trying to deliver what the owner or shareholders are looking for.

We don't hear much from Gibson these days, in fact we hear bugger all most of the time.

And if you think he cares what we as fans think about who he appoints as a manager, I'd say that you're out of your mind.

Whatever the case, you don't say the quiet part out loud.

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25 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Whatever the case, you don't say the quiet part out loud.

Lol, that's true like, saying it out loud is probably not ideal but I suppose it's at least honest.  He isn't claiming to be something that he isn't, and they are making it clear that they are going with their plan whatever anyone thinks.  It's basically just us though isn't it.  Weirdly we are right next to each other in the table as well.

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Just now, Changing Times said:

Lol, that's true like, saying it out loud is probably not ideal but I suppose it's at least honest.  He isn't claiming to be something that he isn't, and they are making it clear that they are going with their plan whatever anyone thinks.  It's basically just us though isn't it.  Weirdly we are right next to each other in the table as well.

I don't think it's entirely similar. For example, their statement shows they couldn't give a *** about Sheffield and say what you want about Gibson, but I don't think you can claim he doesn't love the area...

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2 minutes ago, Brunners said:

I don't think it's entirely similar. For example, their statement shows they couldn't give a *** about Sheffield and say what you want about Gibson, but I don't think you can claim he doesn't love the area...

I don't think it says that does it?  It just says he's not from Sheffield but there's no context to that quote and he isn't the owner.  If you look there are more quotes later that put it in a slightly different light in what I think he's trying to say:

"I am not a football guy and don't pretend to be.

My job is to have those people around me and we want expertise. We think Paul and his team brings that and we will be listening to them"

"If we succeed we succeed together and if we fail it's on me because this is my vision.

Our business is football and what we are doing today is designed to strengthen and recognise our responsibility of football."

"Paul is the face of the club, when there are questions about football he will speak

When there are issues of the club period Stephen Bettis will speak and I will not allow any of our directors to speak.

We have great leadership in Stephen and Paul"

If you read some of the other quotes like those above, I think he's simply trying to say that Heckingbottom will talk about football and Bettis will talk about club matters.  It's not a case of them not caring about what's happening though, I think he's saying that he isn't from Sheffield and he doesn't have that connection.  I don't think it's meant to be taken the way that it reads in isolation.

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“Paul won't be judged on what happens on a Saturday afternoon.

He will be judged on how good the football department is. Me and Paul do have a long-standing relationship and it feels right.”

Another funny quote from them.

They can lose as many matches as they want as long as the owner is happy he's doing what he tells him to do.

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