Non-Boro Football

[White Band 831]

The vaccination issue isn't straight forwards. Perhaps the sensible thing would have been to offer players the first jab at the start of the summer and then the second before they returned - but that would have created a huge public outcry about overpaid footballers getting preferential treatment over every one else.

Responses to the vaccine vary and some people have been unwell for a week or too after.  For someone in a job which requires them to be in peak physical condition, and who can lose their place in the team with a couple of poor performances, having the vaccine mid-season involves risks. Those need to be weighed up against the risk of catching covid and becoming ill from it - and they are a group for whom covid tends to be a less severe illness. Add a youthful sense of invincibility to that, and it may perhaps seem that the risk of vaccine affecting them might feel greater than the risk of covid itself. 

As we saw with Watmore, covid can really affect players (I am not sure whether his current stamina problems are perhaps partly a continuation of his long covid). However for many it is no different to a cold or flu and that can perhaps skew perceptions of the risks of vaccination versus the risks of catching covid.

The ethics of compulsory vaccination are complex. For people who have the capacity to consent, medical ethics in the UK tend to give more weight to the principle of autonomy than to the others and paternalism tends to be viewed quite sceptically.  The principles of beneficence (the benefits of treatment) and non-maleficence (avoiding causing harm to the person) can also conflict. 

Edit: that turned out longer than I anticipated. Guess who was teaching medical ethics yesterday! 🤣

Edited December 17, 2021 by White Band

[sanddancer 1,967]

4 hours ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

But they aren’t.

The government themselves point out that having the jab doesn’t stop you getting the virus and it doesn’t stop you spreading it. It prevents you from being seriously poorly.

The CDC has even show their is correlation between vaccine uptake and infection rates.

and I am double jabbed.

Correct. The vaccine does not prevent anyone contracting or spreading the virus and the government, to my knowledge,  has never claimed it would. What it implies is a person who may contract the virus has a greater chance of defeating the virus. . 
What the government is trying to prevent is a stagnant economy and over loading the heath service. How, well we all know that is restricting large gathering, lockdowns and isolation and masks. Unfortunately it doesn’t suit the UK media agenda. 
I think the question is, should players set an example? 
 

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

26 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

I think the question is, should players set an example?

There are, for me, plenty of areas that football treads into. The question isn't should footballers be setting an example but why not this when willing to do so elsewhere?

Making a choice that is pretty universally accepted by health professionals as the most beneficial to society at large, for all manner of reasons beyond just public health, seems like it should be simpler than it has turned out to be.

Unfortunately, according to what AR has said, less than the average across the whole country have actually been double-jabbed so to me, this as well as their unwillingness to talk about it, makes me think there is accepted scepticism within football. So I'd say the question isn't should players set an example, more why don't they actually want to?

[ABH 470]

50 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Unfortunately, according to what AR has said, less than the average across the whole country have actually been double-jabbed so to me, this as well as their unwillingness to talk about it, makes me think there is accepted scepticism within football. So I'd say the question isn't should players set an example, more why don't they actually want to?

I think 75% is higher than the national average in the age group 18-35

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

38 minutes ago, ABH said:

I think 75% is higher than the national average in the age group 18-35

That feels like it should be easier to confirm than I'm actually finding it to be but it is a good point if true.

[WirelessBoro 67]

Taken from the Football Weekly podcast today, for a bit of perspective. The last stats are from 15th October, PL was 68% double jabbed, EFL 59%.

Meanwhile, Ligue 1 - 95%, Bundesliga - 94%, La Liga - 93%, Serie A - 98%.

I don’t think it’s fair to compare rates among professional athletes to the general population, we’re talking about individuals who have unlimited access to health professionals and resources. 

[Downsouth 6,327]

Some excellent posts and view points over the last page or so.

Of course it is down to the individuals choice and am pretty certain, I think BD mentioned it, that all of us will get the Omicron version at some point, indeed for many "boosted" members of the public" unless you take a test could well be carrying the virus and just showing very minor symptems. And tbh just how many do not bother getting regular tested?

So after careful consideration as others have said why?

I go back to my earlier comment that some are being very easily influenced by the rumour mill and because of their work situation will come accross Covid a lot more frequently than many others and maybe they are duty bound to get us much protection as possible and notto be open to public critisism

[Barnaby 957]

13 minutes ago, Downsouth said:

Some excellent posts and view points over the last page or so.

Of course it is down to the individuals choice and am pretty certain, I think BD mentioned it, that all of us will get the Omicron version at some point, indeed for many "boosted" members of the public" unless you take a test could well be carrying the virus and just showing very minor symptems. And tbh just how many do not bother getting regular tested?

So after careful consideration as others have said why?

I go back to my earlier comment that some are being very easily influenced by the rumour mill and because of their work situation will come accross Covid a lot more frequently than many others and maybe they are duty bound to get us much protection as possible and notto be open to public critisism

As a family we've had 2 x A Z and one Moderna booster (Which floored me & Mrs ) 1 member is refusing to have any jabs so won't be going anywhere...He reckons he'll be able to travel if he provides a neg test on the day 

 

 

 

[TeaCider24 12,642]

8 hours ago, ABH said:

I think 75% is higher than the national average in the age group 18-35

It's not 75% though, it's only 59% that are fully vaccinated.

Another 16% say they intend to get the jab, which is a very different thing to actually having it, even the youngest have been able to get it since June.

Edited December 18, 2021 by TeaCider24

[Leesider 1,076]

4 hours ago, Barnaby said:

As a family we've had 2 x A Z and one Moderna booster (Which floored me & Mrs ) 1 member is refusing to have any jabs so won't be going anywhere...He reckons he'll be able to travel if he provides a neg test on the day 

TBH,i would think long and hard about travelling anywhere at the moment.im just home to Ireland from Tenerife via Stansted.we had a blast but the amount of hassle with PCR tests,locator forms, Delays at Airports etc is huge,we are both mid to late fifties but we could have done with an electronics wizkid to  deal with it all. Add to that,you have the idiots who arrive at airports with no paperwork prepared,rooting under the suntan lotion for their Covid Cert😡😡😡

 

 

 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

19 hours ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

Don't think an employer forcing someone to have a vaccination sits right with me. With the obvious exception of nurses or carers who work with highly clinically vulnerable people (which has always been the case).

Better education is the answer if you want to bring people round to your point of view - trying to force them simply hardens their belief that they're being coerced into something bad. 

Thats been tried but it obviously isn't getting through to them.

Like I said, in many cases, people who don't want to get jabbed can either work from home, or have the ability to work in Covid-safe environments.

That is not the case with football (or any team sport). That is why footballers should not be allowed to refuse.

When people are stupid enough to buy into conspiracy theories, or so stubborn they simply won't listen to facts, then they have to be forced.

If it were up to me I'd make a new rule that they either have to get vaccinated or else be released from their contracts. Or if that presents too many legal problems, they simply sit out their contract and not have it renewed.

 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

14 hours ago, sanddancer said:

Correct. The vaccine does not prevent anyone contracting or spreading the virus and the government, to my knowledge,  has never claimed it would. What it implies is a person who may contract the virus has a greater chance of defeating the virus. . 
What the government is trying to prevent is a stagnant economy and over loading the heath service. How, well we all know that is restricting large gathering, lockdowns and isolation and masks. Unfortunately it doesn’t suit the UK media agenda. 
I think the question is, should players set an example? 
 

I, for one, don't expect players to set an example. By and large they are awful role models (unless you look past the usual media headlines and learn about the charity / community work some get involved in).

I DO however expect them to act in the best interests of their clubs, their sport...and themselves.

As you pointed out, getting vaccinated doesn't stop the spread of the virus, but it does greatly reduce the chances of people becoming seriously ill, should they get it.

The fact that only a quarter of players have been vaccinated, mandates that games be called off, whenever there is an outbreak at a club.

Whereas if players were vaccinated, fixtures could still be fulfilled with a high degree of confidence that no-one would get seriously ill.

 

[smogsterking the Inspirati 2,490]

What an awful goal Newcastle just conceded there a complete shambles. They're going to need some overhaul in January.

[Humpty 3,261]

Ciaren Clarke is an awful footballer at that level. Some goal to concede that.

[TeaCider24 12,642]

Shocked that wasn't a penalty for Newcastle.